Building a 1M X-Carve

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Xenocrates
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Building a 1M X-Carve

Postby Xenocrates » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:39 pm

I figure since I failed at show-casing my V2 build, and I apparently have a new toy to assemble (I was surprised with it today, as my dad ordered it as a surprise), I might as well document it somewhat here.

First things first, we got 3 of the 4 boxes today, which is to say everything but the controller. UPS apparently miss-directed that enough for it to be a day later. I've got some un-boxing pictures and such non-sense for all you folks.

Spoiler:
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Also, I hand counted every fastener. The only discrepancy is 7 extra threaded inserts. Well done, Inventables, but not very generous huh.
Machines:
Rostock Max V2, Duet .8.5, PT100 enabled E3D V6 and volcano, Raymond style enclosure
Automation Technology 60W laser cutter/engraver
1m X-carve router

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Jimustanguitar
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Re: Building a 1M X-Carve

Postby Jimustanguitar » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:59 pm

I think you'll be happy with it. They're great machines for the price.

There's nothing better than a pile of shiny new parts :)

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Xenocrates
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Re: Building a 1M X-Carve

Postby Xenocrates » Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:58 pm

I have completed the main build of the machine. We're looking at picking up the material to build a torsion box as well as cutting a pair of spare waste-boards. I'll be powering it up to test soon enough, but among other things, I plan to eventually replace the router with a proper spindle and VFD, Design or find shrouds for the carriages to wipe chips off, make a proper dust shoe, enclose the work envelope. Other potential plans call for increasing the Z travel a bit in order to make room for greater depth and a set of T slots and smaller sacrificial waste-boards, and potentially adding ballscrews or leadscrews to the X and Y axis's.

We're also going to go with a laser cut holder for the tubes that the bits go into. These have a 13.5 mm base, which gives a little room for us to put other router bits up to a .5 in shaft into printed holders, when they don't have the nice square tube. I remain utterly baffled as to what the 2 other footprints on the side-board are for. If anyone has an idea of what they were for, and good things to put on them, let me know. I'll have more pictures for you all soon, especially once we have the torsion box started.
Machines:
Rostock Max V2, Duet .8.5, PT100 enabled E3D V6 and volcano, Raymond style enclosure
Automation Technology 60W laser cutter/engraver
1m X-carve router

Sic Transit Gloria Mundi
01-10011-11111100001

adarcher
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Re: Building a 1M X-Carve

Postby adarcher » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:11 pm

Xenocrates wrote:I have completed the main build of the machine. We're looking at picking up the material to build a torsion box as well as cutting a pair of spare waste-boards. I'll be powering it up to test soon enough, but among other things, I plan to eventually replace the router with a proper spindle and VFD, Design or find shrouds for the carriages to wipe chips off, make a proper dust shoe, enclose the work envelope. Other potential plans call for increasing the Z travel a bit in order to make room for greater depth and a set of T slots and smaller sacrificial waste-boards, and potentially adding ballscrews or leadscrews to the X and Y axis's.

We're also going to go with a laser cut holder for the tubes that the bits go into. These have a 13.5 mm base, which gives a little room for us to put other router bits up to a .5 in shaft into printed holders, when they don't have the nice square tube. I remain utterly baffled as to what the 2 other footprints on the side-board are for. If anyone has an idea of what they were for, and good things to put on them, let me know. I'll have more pictures for you all soon, especially once we have the torsion box started.


So many pictures in the first post, and none in this one?!

Expectation leads to resentment :lol:

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Xenocrates
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Re: Building a 1M X-Carve

Postby Xenocrates » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:18 pm

I'm in a class currently. I'll have more pictures latter this evening, including some CAD renders since I've just grabbed the X carve repo for the shroud designs.
Machines:
Rostock Max V2, Duet .8.5, PT100 enabled E3D V6 and volcano, Raymond style enclosure
Automation Technology 60W laser cutter/engraver
1m X-carve router

Sic Transit Gloria Mundi
01-10011-11111100001

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Xenocrates
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Re: Building a 1M X-Carve

Postby Xenocrates » Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:57 pm

More Pictures!
Spoiler:
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And last but not least, a CAD render of the pair of side covers that will hopefully keep most of the chips out of the mechanisms and prolong the life of the wheels.
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Machines:
Rostock Max V2, Duet .8.5, PT100 enabled E3D V6 and volcano, Raymond style enclosure
Automation Technology 60W laser cutter/engraver
1m X-carve router

Sic Transit Gloria Mundi
01-10011-11111100001

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Re: Building a 1M X-Carve

Postby Qdeathstar » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:07 am

wow, x carve looks pretty interesting... shame i don't have the space!

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Re: Building a 1M X-Carve

Postby Xenocrates » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:26 pm

I've been keeping at it. Last Friday we went and bought the materials for the torsion box, since we wanted 5X5's of 3/4 Baltic birch for the top and bottom. These have had channels an eighth of an inch deep routed in them to receive the interior verticals of the torsion box, on ten inch centers. The ones with routed slots are 5 inches high and are already all glued in. The cross members are offset 2 inches from each other to give me room to use a brad nailer on the ends, to supplement the glue. Lots of clamps in use here. Meanwhile, I've started designing the eventual successor for the X-carve. Right now I'm looking at 10mm lead-screws, DIN 103 standard, with a pair of bronze nuts each that get machined to go into a mounting plate and take a 20 lps wave spring between them for backlash compensation. These will go inside of Open-builds C-beam extrusions at 1500mm long. With a 400 steps/R motor with a nice 282 Oz/in torque rating that is inside the amperage restrictions on the X-controller (No, I don't like the idea of spending 150$ on a gecko driver for a 350$ total axis), it should be both precise and solid, while JUST fitting inside the footprint of the torsion box so long as the motors are not directly on the end of the leadscrew, which honestly would be a pain to deal with as far as coupling and machining. I'm also thinking long term on the project, so I may change my mind since I have an uncle who manages a machine shop which makes ballscrews (I got to see one of their longer ones at a mere 30 feet, last time I went by their shop). I'm also planning to give myself a nice sized Z work envelope, and mounting a VFD spindle sooner rather than later. I'm thinking a 800W air cooled or a 1500W water cooled one. They are similarly priced, but a water cooled spindle could cause more issues in the shop, however it would be more pleasant to work with and also less likely to get in trouble due to chips or coolant, although routing the coolant tubing would require me to use far larger drag chains and find a spot for a pump and reservoir as well as potentially a heat exchanger.

All that said, Onto the pictures!
http://imgur.com/a/py86P
Machines:
Rostock Max V2, Duet .8.5, PT100 enabled E3D V6 and volcano, Raymond style enclosure
Automation Technology 60W laser cutter/engraver
1m X-carve router

Sic Transit Gloria Mundi
01-10011-11111100001

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Re: Building a 1M X-Carve

Postby Eric » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:42 pm

There's no such thing as too many clamps!

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Re: Building a 1M X-Carve

Postby adarcher » Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:23 pm

Sad I missed the reply last time, these pics look great! I live in a small place, so no room for this unfortunately.

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Re: Building a 1M X-Carve

Postby geneb » Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:02 am

You might want to take the opportunity to make your torsion box a vacuum plenum. That way you can use vacuum to hold things down that you can't easily clamp.

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Re: Building a 1M X-Carve

Postby Xenocrates » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:49 am

geneb wrote:You might want to take the opportunity to make your torsion box a vacuum plenum. That way you can use vacuum to hold things down that you can't easily clamp.

g.

I've been thinking about it Geneb, but I'm not finding a lot of good information on that. I think if I went for a vacuum table, I would probably want to lift the machine up a little on the box rather than convert the whole torsion box, because it's a lot of cubic to empty, and a lot of extra joints to leak-proof. Unless I'm missing your point and you're suggesting routing the top surface, in which case I'm not entirely happy with the idea, considering I want a very sturdy table and am planning to potentially mount a different sized machine on it, so anything I did would have to at least be convertable to a much larger machine while not leaking too much. If I were doing a vac-table seriously, I think I would probably get a piece of HDPE or aluminum, somthing vaguely structural, and bolt it into the base of the machine under the waste board, instead of having to seal the base of the frame to the table. Not to mention that at least with the stock wasteboard, I would probably need a lot of grub-screws to keep the holes in it from letting all the nothing out.


Adarcher, one of our goals for this table is that we can store the machine in a smaller space. Thus the machine gets bolted down, but the table itself will be movable, with part of the idea being that when not in use, it can be stored on it's side in a much smaller area of space (Enclosed obviously). Even with a barn, we're starting to run out of space ourselves. So this thing may resemble an over-engineered folding table (Which would actually let us take it to various shows if we were crazy enough to try). But it would also work for keeping it in a garage and pulling a car out when you want to use it. Another option we've though about is putting in eyebolts, and suspending it. The table should be ~300 pounds at most with a stock X-carve, so even smallish 2300N working load eyebolts should be plenty (that is, a 560~ pound working limit, times between two and eight, depending on how many eyebolts you go for.) Use pulleys and a winch or something to lift it, and you could hang it from a wall or ceiling when you're not using it. Mind you, that's not always an easy retrofit to do in a workshop or garage. So unless you know your joists can handle the extra load, don't plan on it. But there's the option to build a structure somewhat like a gantry crane in your garage/shop, which can be useful for a lot of things.

Eric, There is such a thing as too many clamps for a workspace or individual. And that point is when the glue joint the first clamps are holding is dried before you've gotten the last ones on.
Machines:
Rostock Max V2, Duet .8.5, PT100 enabled E3D V6 and volcano, Raymond style enclosure
Automation Technology 60W laser cutter/engraver
1m X-carve router

Sic Transit Gloria Mundi
01-10011-11111100001

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Re: Building a 1M X-Carve

Postby geneb » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:25 am

I'll see if I can describe this adequately - if you want to see what my current ShopBot vacuum table looks like, search youtube for "ShopBot, heal thyself!" - I don't have any other pics of it.

You build your torsion box like normal, but the top surface should be 3/4" and have a 1/4" grid cut into it. Design the grid such that it breaks the table into four "zones". At the center of each zone would be a 1" hole that would allow vacuum into that zone. The interior of the box should allow air to flow through it completely. I divide my zones with embedded t-track across the 4' axis (X) of the table (it's a 4x8 machine). This allows me to use cam clamps to hold down stock if I don't want to mess with the vacuum table. You'll want to 3D print little seal caps that will fit into the center holes so you can "turn off" other zones. I also surround each zone with 1/32" single-sided gasket tape to help get a good seal when only using one zone. On top of all that I use a 3/4" Ultralight MDF (it's also called Truepan) that I use as a spoil board. The material is porous enough to allow air to pass through. I would recommend using a spoilboard cutter to level it out before you use it. I don't know if the spindle with the x-carve can handle common spoilboard cutters though - the shank is often 1/2" or more.

I'm going to be building a 4x4 MPCNC soon and this is the same method I'm going to use for the torsion box on it. (mine will be removable so I can swap it with a metal grid in order to use it as a cnc plasma cutter).

g.
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Re: Building a 1M X-Carve

Postby barry99705 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:57 am

Gene. Take plenty of pictures of the MPCNC torsion box! We've had a crap ton of questions for tables.
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Re: Building a 1M X-Carve

Postby geneb » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:02 am

I plan on it. I wish the MPCNC forum software didn't suck so bad - I'd spend more time there. :(

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Re: Building a 1M X-Carve

Postby barry99705 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:40 am

So does Ryan. He's blown the forum up a couple times trying to fix issues.
Never do anything you don't want to have to explain to the paramedics.

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Re: Building a 1M X-Carve

Postby geneb » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:05 am

Point him here: http://cvs.prohost.org/index.php?title= ... d_Doubt.3F

I've used that forum for years without issue. It's open source as well. (my instance is here: http://www.simpits.org/forum)

g.
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