Crimson Oni - a RoMAX log

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zeplin
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Crimson Oni - a RoMAX log

Postby zeplin » Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:51 pm

Well, I have joined either the enlightened delta 3D printer market or the masochistic 3D printer market for not going with the 'typical 'Cartesian' style printer. Beside why do we need to know how to read a map..... what that is cartography. Damit

I wished SeeMeCNC carried some of the e3d parts so i could have bot my printer directly from them. But alas they do no so this last week I purchased it from MatterHackers with some upgrades/mods. the e3dv6 hotend, motor isolator, nozzle pack, and printed mount.

I have need quietly reading all the posts that I could and creating spreadsheet wars to find out what power supplies would be safe to run on our lightweight 110v mains here in the states. Linked is my studies/parts searching and maths to help me stay under 12 to 13 amps on a 110v supply.
More Power

Also, I have been using the google sheet to track what upgrades/mods that I want to do, and why/what I think it will correct/help/improve.

So, Monday FedEx willing I will have a shiny box of parts that should be assembled in to something that looks like a Delta 3D printer.
Modding all the things....
Crimson Oni - RoMAXv2 - Calabrating 24v via 2x hp DPS-800-GB PS's, BirdAir layer cooling, SSR'ed 24v Heatbed, e3dv6 hotend and 713maker mount.

Qdeathstar
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Re: Crimson Oni - a RoMAX log

Postby Qdeathstar » Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:58 pm

Hi. I bought the same upgrades as you at first, as was told to build the stock hot end first. I am glad I headed the advice. Unless you are very experienced (or even If you are) building the stock hotend helps you get everything dialed in, because it creates a baseline fully calibrated printer.


Also, it prints just fine. I had the heating elements fail, but other than that I haven't had a reason to switch to the e3d. I'll be printing with some iron soon, so I'll probably swap it out then. If you use xt60 connector, you can easily swap between stock/e3d

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Re: Crimson Oni - a RoMAX log

Postby Qdeathstar » Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:59 pm

Also, that printed mount sucks. It's a real pain to put together. I wish I had have looked on seemecnc's site first, as they have a melamine mount that looks nice.

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Re: Crimson Oni - a RoMAX log

Postby Qdeathstar » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:03 pm

most bedroom/living room/garage circuits are 15 amp circuits. You want to only draw 80 percent of that, which is 12amps
s, as long as your circuit is completely isolated. Which, it's probably not.

the stock Romax supply doesn't draw that much current though.

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zeplin
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Re: Crimson Oni - a RoMAX log

Postby zeplin » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:30 pm

No, Qdethstar it does not pull more than 7 amps a full boar which is not likely. but when you want to swap out a 110v 500w heater and a heated enclosure as well as running the motors eventually at 24v and the accessories at 12. There is some math that is needed to be done. Also, since there is not fused/circuit protection i wanted to know what i would be drawing from the outlets. Being shocked because it works is OK. But, it is not when you are shocked because something failed and you touched an exposed metal surface that you are its ground does not feel that good. As well as the appropriate amperage for a push to reset breakers would be needed to mod the system in a safe manor.

Lucky, I have had the good mind in the past to run 20amp wiring/breaker to parts of my house from the breaker panel for occasion like this. Partly to support my electricity consumption habit of my tools. Such as a 12" bladed table saw from Hitachi that has a 10amp motor itself and there is the 220v 14ish CFM @ 100psi cast iron air compress that are stuffed in the garage. Yes, very over kill for the average home owner but i don't like average it is boring.

But, sadly both are hold overs from when i actually had a working back and could use them alot creating items for the house or shoe horning a 300 HP motor in a 2000lb car. And i need something to keep me from becoming a bump on a log doing nothing but brooding is not healthy.
Modding all the things....
Crimson Oni - RoMAXv2 - Calabrating 24v via 2x hp DPS-800-GB PS's, BirdAir layer cooling, SSR'ed 24v Heatbed, e3dv6 hotend and 713maker mount.

Mac The Knife
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Re: Crimson Oni - a RoMAX log

Postby Mac The Knife » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:38 pm

Why did you need an E3d hotend?
R-Max V2
Eris

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zeplin
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Re: Crimson Oni - a RoMAX log

Postby zeplin » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:52 pm

I don't need it. I want to use it as has a less items that can fail in a manor that will result in the high chance of the printer and house burning to the foundations. Don't get me wrong I love fire especial when i start. But, FMA is not a exercise in fire starting,It is a exercise in making may things almost start fires but don't so that we can make cool prototype items.

So, I endeavoring to keep my belonging as char free as possible i am opting for the heater cartridge that the e3d system uses over heater resistors that that the stock hotend uses. And, I in reality there is nothing wrong with supplied hotend that SMC packages with the kit. Being retired military i understand that some times you have to choose the lesser of two weevils when doing anything. Be it making a kit for people to buy or attacking a hill or what ever. Since, I don't have to make that compromise and error more on the safer side in my not so own humble opinion.

I want the e3d.
Modding all the things....
Crimson Oni - RoMAXv2 - Calabrating 24v via 2x hp DPS-800-GB PS's, BirdAir layer cooling, SSR'ed 24v Heatbed, e3dv6 hotend and 713maker mount.

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Xenocrates
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Re: Crimson Oni - a RoMAX log

Postby Xenocrates » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:53 pm

So, here's a tip. You'll do just about as well with a 24V supply also powering the bed, in addition to the motors/heaters. With the way it's fused, you'll need ~35A. Now, that's 7A of 110. Less than half your circuit rating. In exchange, you pay more for the DC power supply, about 40$. You save more than that just cutting out the heater pad, and don't then need to work to keep the AC noise from affecting your printer and wiring harness, plus you'll also have only one (Rather massive, since it's a 1KW unit, with power to spare) cord to plug in. http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/SE-1000-24/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsPs3th5F8koDbnr%252bnqhZFPPoM655ayEyY%3d. You can halve the price of the SSR as well, and probably don't need the heatsink (Why not though, other than space). It also cuts out the need for a second circuit breaker. Your source for the SSR offers the DC unit (I would think that's how you found them anyways)

While I'm at it, I'll link you to my preferred enclosure design (I worked on it, so I like it, but it's really Raymond Ma's design). http://repables.com/r/719/. A 4x4 is just barely enough poly-carbonate to build it (You'll have leftovers, but they aren't large enough for another panel for it). If you can't buy 4X4s of it, then you'll need 3 2x4's.

Also, just as a note. I've run my enclosure temp up a good ways, and don't have a whole lot of clearance from the trucks (I left a 150W ceramic heater running next to one for an hour, and it didn't do anything). Unless you plan on using some really crazy temps, I would stay with the stock carriages. While Brian's trick-trucks are nice, they are not adjustment free, while the new carriages are (And they come with an awesome warranty too). The stock ball arms have less play than most TRAXAS joints. I have none at all in mine, and they were among the first 50 shipped. And again, awesome warranty on them. If a plastic component fails within a year, Seeme has stated that the will replace it, and older parts are at their option.
If you strip any plastic parts, or mess them up, or your dog ate it, email support@seemecnc.com your order number with us and your problem. Please submit your order number even if you bought our product through a re-seller.
We will warranty any plastic parts we manufactured as long as you can provide proof of purchase through us or a re-seller. The limit of warranty at the time of this post is one year from date of purchase, but (at our discretion) we'll warranty our parts (excluding hot end) the original purchaser after one year. All parts are warranted against defects upon receipt.

While I've heard tell that a number of traxas joints are sloppy out of the bag (It's those zero lash straps that help, not the joints really), and most are rather loose after a year of hard printing.

I suggest you try the Berd-air instead of building your own. It works pretty well, and you can find it here: http://www.themakerhive.com/shop/viewitem.php?productid=28 It's cheaper, and proven.

Another suggestion is the 713 mount for your E3D. It's far nice than any printer mount (Good grief MH over charges for those), and is a quick swap solution too. http://713maker.com/mounts.html

As a warning, those high-accuracy steppers will lose you speed, as many find that the rambo can't feed them steps fast enough after a certain point to keep speed up. Feeding them 24V will help you maintain speed until you hit the board limit. Your chosen heat spreader is also a little small. It's larger than the actual print radius, but smaller than the bed diameter. I suggest you go with Brian at trick laser's one, as it's properly sized for the max, or make your own.


Full disclosure: I have purchased the 713maker mounts, the berd-air, printed/re-designed the brackets linked, but otherwise have no affiliation with any of the suggestions above (Unless you count buying crap from mouser, and making plans of my own like this). Do not worry about pulling 1KW through a standard plug. So long as yours are properly installed, they will easily handle it. I have at times pulled somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.6KW through a single plug, and a power strip, as well as at times short term 3KW loads on single plugs. I don't suggest the latter, but it hasn't set anything on fire yet.

Random boilerplate: If you trip the breaker with these modifications, check the wiring first in the printer, then in the socket. Do not replace your breaker with a larger one without making sure the wiring in your walls for that circuit is large enough to support it, and that you will not exceed the trip level of your primary breaker. If you aren't sure, and it keeps tripping the breaker, unplug your printer, and call a licensed electrician. If you feel ill, please do not put a lime in the coconut and call me in the morning. If you do anyways, I will not answer the phone. Do not taunt happy fun ball. We did not invent the algorithm. The algorithm consistently finds Jesus. The algorithm killed Jeeves.
The algorithm is banned in China. The algorithm is from Jersey. The algorithm constantly finds Jesus.
This is not the algorithm. This is close.
Machines:
Rostock Max V2, 760W corsair modular PSU, PT100 enabled E3D V6 and volcano, self adjusting carriages, Raymond style enclosure
Automation Technology 60W laser cutter/engraver

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01-10011-11111100001

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Xenocrates
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Re: Crimson Oni - a RoMAX log

Postby Xenocrates » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:58 pm

zeplin wrote:I don't need it. I want to use it as has a less items that can fail in a manor that will result in the high chance of the printer and house burning to the foundations. Don't get me wrong I love fire especial when i start. But, FMA is not a exercise in fire starting,It is a exercise in making may things almost start fires but don't so that we can make cool prototype items.

So, I endeavoring to keep my belonging as char free as possible i am opting for the heater cartridge that the e3d system uses over heater resistors that that the stock hotend uses. And, I in reality there is nothing wrong with supplied hotend that SMC packages with the kit. Being retired military i understand that some times you have to choose the lesser of two weevils when doing anything. Be it making a kit for people to buy or attacking a hill or what ever. Since, I don't have to make that compromise and error more on the safer side in my not so own humble opinion.

I want the e3d.


Actually you'd be surprised. The stock heating resistors, while they will fail, will fail open, and won't burn your house down. Part daddy did testing/analysis and doesn't want to move to cartridge heaters in the kit because of that. Also, thank you very much for your service. Being in a military family (Although none of them were actually in the service while I was growing up, my father and grand-father served, and my brother did a stint in the army while I was in middle school), it means a lot to me. Feel free to message me if you ever need any help with the printer. I'll do my best to get you a good answer as quickly as I can.

I will also say I appreciate your sense of humor already.
Machines:
Rostock Max V2, 760W corsair modular PSU, PT100 enabled E3D V6 and volcano, self adjusting carriages, Raymond style enclosure
Automation Technology 60W laser cutter/engraver

Sic Transit Gloria Mundi
01-10011-11111100001

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Re: Crimson Oni - a RoMAX log

Postby zeplin » Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:14 am

Xenocrates, Are you suggesting using PID and duty limiting the 12v Onyx heatbed at 24v. Not that it is not possible or that people don't do it. I just know releasing the blue smoke out of electronic is not cool. that is why i was looking at 110v. or is there a 24v heatbed that would be suitable.

As a side not. i have a local supply that i just found today that i can get an Al plate at 1/4" for cheep as it is scrap 3003 but the Tricklazer one is a better alloy..... well dang-it.

But i had not even thought about the induction from the AC that could be pushed to the steppers. hmm..... time to look for plan B....
Modding all the things....
Crimson Oni - RoMAXv2 - Calabrating 24v via 2x hp DPS-800-GB PS's, BirdAir layer cooling, SSR'ed 24v Heatbed, e3dv6 hotend and 713maker mount.

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Eaglezsoar
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Re: Crimson Oni - a RoMAX log

Postby Eaglezsoar » Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:46 am

Interesting fine print :)
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Xenocrates
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Re: Crimson Oni - a RoMAX log

Postby Xenocrates » Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:56 am

There is a 24V version of the onyx that seemeCNC sells, with a higher resistance. But no. I'm not talking about duty limiting it with PID, or making it act like it's only getting 12V. The onyx is solid enough that a large number of people have used the standard ones and run 24VDC straight to it. So long as you don't overheat it, which since we have a temperature sensor in the middle of it to control it, is easy, resistors do fine. And the onyx is just a really big, relatively high temperature resistor. That's why I suggested you could use 24VDC rather than AC. see the threads http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=7766, and http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?t=1106 for examples of people doing it. From what I understand, even with 4x the power going through it, the onyx still takes some time to get to temperature, and even more with additional mass on it, which a heatspreader would provide, meaning the control loops can take care of it easily.

So long as it's aluminum, it doesn't matter what alloy it is too much, however 3003 isn't one I've worked with much (apparently a manganese alloy, which work hardens. Not great if you're starting with scrap and need to machine it to shape and then face it down for flatness). What does matter is the flatness and thickness tolerance. Most sheet aluminum that I've seen has a thickness tolerance of ±.007, but nothing is said about potential warping and bending. scrap usually doesn't come with tolerances of any kind attached. If you're starting with your own, I would use MIC-6, unless you have a fairly large mill and facing tools available. Otherwise, I would advise you to buy tricklasers. You could also use a few layers of heavy duty aluminum foil between the glass and the bed (Or, if you can find copper foil such as is sometime used in stained glass that is large enough to cover much of the bed, that may be even better) http://basiccopper.com/12x121milcof.html?ref=lexity&_vs=google&_vm=productsearch&gclid=CNC33KbRos0CFc8lgQodOo8IOQ for example. But, it costs more than tricklaser's heatspreader (And you probably want to use all five sheets so that you have enough of a layer to have effective thermal transfer over the whole bed).
Machines:
Rostock Max V2, 760W corsair modular PSU, PT100 enabled E3D V6 and volcano, self adjusting carriages, Raymond style enclosure
Automation Technology 60W laser cutter/engraver

Sic Transit Gloria Mundi
01-10011-11111100001

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zeplin
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Re: Crimson Oni - a RoMAX log

Postby zeplin » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:49 pm

Thanks for the links Xenocrates. I have read one fully and working thought the other.

Crimson Oni made it from FexEx today. And seems to have all the parts in it as well as no apparent damage which is always a plus. Have to let the weather clear one more day to drop the humidity down for edge painting of the melamine. I am going with the Black with Red edging/piping and also waiting on a few other comfort items like red sleeving and black eps connectors. Will forgo any picture tell after painting as the unboxing IMO is over done.
Modding all the things....
Crimson Oni - RoMAXv2 - Calabrating 24v via 2x hp DPS-800-GB PS's, BirdAir layer cooling, SSR'ed 24v Heatbed, e3dv6 hotend and 713maker mount.

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Re: Crimson Oni - a RoMAX log

Postby zeplin » Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:55 pm

The 'Crimson Oni' lives.

I had ordered the wrong SSR i had initial ordered a AC unit instead of a DC output unit. And i found a way to use twin HP server powers supplies to run 24v,12v to the Oni instead of the MeanWell that had spec'ed initial. The inspiration was from the following RC site. I had a set of them as spares from Bitcoin mining and as soon as i have the 2 extras I ordered in i will do a full write up on how to. The HP power supplies are rebuilt and very inexpensive the HP part # DPS-800-GB and a Amazon.com listing for them.

She calibrated a lot faster than I was expecting. But, I spent a lot of time making sure that the towers were properly perpendicular (i.e. filing some to get the clearance on the bottom and top plates on my 'Y' tower because I could not get a -1 degree incline out and with a trusty fine metal file i was able to clearance it enough to get what looks like perfect. I don't have a digital compass to check but the 14" framing square and a Mk.1 eyeball says it is damn close if not dead on.

I will be taking some pictures later this week if i can find my DSLR have not used in years. But i did make a big mistake that is cosmetic/print area snafu. I wanted to run the wires up two 1" square aluminum polls/tubes but i did not account for the heat bed and the effector arm motion. So, I will have to source a new top and bottom plate to correct the issue. I feel so damn stupid for that mistake. But, I have a great printer even if the print area is a little small temporarily.

The only thing that i can pick on this kit for is a small over sight in the documentation that would have saved me from breaking a part to a galled SS screw/nut interface. The use of wax to keep the SS from galling. But, Steve from SeeMeCNC really helped me out when I called about the issues of the broken part. Which was taken care of easily and he suggested to use a candle to 'lube/coat' the SS to keep it from galling.

I do need to let 'Geneb ' know to add it to the Assembly manual in the next version. As well as to thank him for excellent documentation for the build and User's Manual. I don't know what i liked better the beautifully crafted kit or he excellent documentation. Being my first 3D printer it was a joy to build and there was no ambiguous steps.

But a huge thanks to SeeMeCNC's Crew and Geneb for the Kit and documentation.
Modding all the things....
Crimson Oni - RoMAXv2 - Calabrating 24v via 2x hp DPS-800-GB PS's, BirdAir layer cooling, SSR'ed 24v Heatbed, e3dv6 hotend and 713maker mount.

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Re: Crimson Oni - a RoMAX log

Postby zeplin » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:09 pm

Small update on the 'Oni'.

After not finding a side panel and power panel that would take a 80mm fan and a filter i decided to roll my own. I could not find a suitably filter so i fell back on the old computer filter trick of pantyhose. Laff if you want but there damn good and cheep so when they get clogged you just throw that portion away and cut out another section and 'renew' your filter frame.

I moved my power inlet to the left side between the x and z towers for accommodating the hybrid 24v power that I am running.

New power panel installed:
Image
Power Panel Open:
Image

Power Panel downloads for STL and IGES:


I have not painted the 'High Voltage" inlay that I put in or the 'Oni' logo so they look like strange artifacts with out there red paint.

I went we the same idea for the right panel (y to z towers) with another 80mm fan and filter as i have both of them as pullers and want to keep the lint out that is the air. if you look close enough on the power panel you can see some dust/lint already growing. And that is with about 100ish hours of on time printing. I have mounted a hour meter that is wired off the power switch so that it runs when the printer is on. This is so my log of work I can track how long something worked or did not work and how long the printer has been running as I reset my EEPROM frequently.

Posed photos of the 80mm fan panel with and without filter.

Without filter material:
Image
Image

With filter material:
Image
Image

Installed panel with my getto enclosure:
Image
Panel open and hybrid 24v power shown:
Image

80mm Fan Panel downloads for STL and IGES:
Modding all the things....
Crimson Oni - RoMAXv2 - Calabrating 24v via 2x hp DPS-800-GB PS's, BirdAir layer cooling, SSR'ed 24v Heatbed, e3dv6 hotend and 713maker mount.


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