Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

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0110-m-p
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Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by 0110-m-p » Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:40 pm

Just started printing the build enclosure mounting parts for my RMv1 based on rymnd's heated enclosure mod.

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5695

I'm not planning on heating my enclosure right now, just sealing it up pretty good to eliminate drafts and keep the ambient temps a bit higher around the part.

Random details...
Printer: Rostock Max (V1) w/ E3D V5 hotend (0.4mm nozzle) and Tricklaser arms
Slicer: KISSlicer Pro v1.5 (Beta 1.15)
Software: Repetier-Host v1.0.6
Material: IC3D ABS (Red 1.75mm)
Temperatures: 230C hotend, 90C bed
Layer height: 0.2mm
Infill: 25% rounded
Speed: 30 mm/s

If you want any other info, ask away.

Some pictures of the first printed parts....(it looks pink in some of these phone pictures, but it is actually quite red)

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Getting some weird banding as Z-increases.

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Printing the top mount...

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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by Jimustanguitar » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:44 pm

Those are already great looking parts. Interesting ridges in that 3rd picture though.

Can't wait to see how your prints improve with the build chamber!

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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by McSlappy » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:08 pm

What are those vertical ridges from? They look to be repeating every 20 or so layers which seems like a strange thing to occur in a machine without a lead-screw. My v2 has some very small ridges every 10 layers ever since I took it for a ride in my car :/
I loved my Rostock so much I now sell them in Oz :)

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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by bubbasnow » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:44 pm

ive seen ridges like that in inconsistent filament diameter...

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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by Jimustanguitar » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:08 am

McSlappy wrote:What are those vertical ridges from? They look to be repeating every 20 or so layers which seems like a strange thing to occur in a machine without a lead-screw. My v2 has some very small ridges every 10 layers ever since I took it for a ride in my car :/


Do you have a "bump" in one of your cheapskate wheels?
I've probably thrown my Rostock in the car 40 or 50 times to haul it to the makerhive. I adjust my Z0 periodically, but it's always been adjustments, never damage.

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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by 0110-m-p » Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:13 am

I changed a lot in the past month. Full recalibration of my machine to achieve better bed flatness and 20mm test cube dimensions (bed/hotend PID values, tower rotations, arm length, belt tension, cheapskate etc etc), updated firmware from 0.83 to 0.91, updated software to v1.0.6, changed from Slic3r to KISSlicer, and moved to new filament (IC3D 1.75mm abs). Due to all these changes I am now printing much bigger objects with much denser infill than ever before. Also due to all these changes...tracking down this issue is going to be difficult but I'm working though it.

Jimustanguitar wrote:Do you have a "bump" in one of your cheapskate wheels?
I've probably thrown my Rostock in the car 40 or 50 times to haul it to the makerhive. I adjust my Z0 periodically, but it's always been adjustments, never damage.


My cheapskate wheels have always had several small bumps in them, but have never seen any performance issues because of it. Also I highly doubt there is any damage to my machine since it has literally never left my desk since I built it a year ago.

To muddy the water even more....here a few close up pictures of parts that tell a story that basically goes nowhere in my mind.

Here are two lower enclosure mounts...both were printed on different days with different slices where the only difference in slice settings was perimeter goes from inside to outside on one and outside to inside on the other.

Image

Here are two pictures of the upper enclosure mount...notice there is vertical banding on the thin section that is at a "finer pitch" than what is seen on the thicker lower mounts, BUT there is no banding at all on the upper section of the part.

Image

Image

Now lets muddy the waters even more...the second lower mount was printed after the upper mount, so I'm not sure variance in filament diameter tells the story.

I posted this issue to the KISSlicer google group thinking it was a slicer problem, but most people don't seem to agree.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... o86SEuZ17w
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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by 0110-m-p » Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:56 pm

Finally got all 3 upper and lower mounts printed...all are looking pretty good with just a bit of banding. I'm 95% sure at this point that it is something to do with my heated bed having difficulty maintaining 90C.

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Getting close in on the details....

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Also designed up some lower mount retaining plates that pin it to the extrusion. I saw something like this in rymnd's heated enclosure thread, but no STL's were attached so I printed my own. If anyone wants the STL, I'll post it up (its a very tight fit).

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by 0110-m-p » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:26 am

Delta Zee Solutions wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQFxmAdyKcg

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Patience grasshopper...

I just got in my heat-set inserts and some hardware, so I will be installing those tonight (will post pictures of course). Also, need to figure out exactly how much polycarbonate sheeting I need to order since it is pretty expensive in the 0.25" thickness that I want.
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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by BONE » Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:56 am

0110-m-p wrote:I just got in my heat-set inserts and some hardware, so I will be installing those tonight (will post pictures of course).


I prefer the press-fit inserts on light duty projects like this one, no heat required. The heated inserts are better for medium duty applications. You can also tap the holes in 3D prints, just remember to break the chips ever turn.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#brass-inserts/=ujqm17
The BONE ZONE build thread.

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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by 0110-m-p » Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:50 am

BONE wrote:
0110-m-p wrote:I just got in my heat-set inserts and some hardware, so I will be installing those tonight (will post pictures of course).


I prefer the press-fit inserts on light duty projects like this one, no heat required. The heated inserts are better for medium duty applications. You can also tap the holes in 3D prints, just remember to break the chips ever turn.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#brass-inserts/=ujqm17


I have used those before and they do work great, but I figured I would try something new this time around. Doesn't help that I jump on any excuse to add a new tool to the toolbox :D.

PS/off-topic: Your beer+3D-printing meetup idea is awesome!
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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by techstorage » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:37 am

I went with the same style enclosure brackets. I did use threaded inserts for the tower side panels, but opted for magnetic inserts for the bigger side panels. If printing with a layer fan it would hit the side, so I moved the layer fan to the front and leave the door off on larger prints. When printing ABS, I just remove the layer fan.
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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by BONE » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:44 am

Got it. With the heated ones, you have to be quick about. Once they are set in, remove heat and you really only get one shot.

Love Berry's videos, start at 1:08. He has a nice set up for heated inserts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGNXHWP ... TE7tAuY3IA

Yea the first meetup was pretty fun. Going to hold another one in January hopefully. Looking at dates right now.
Photos: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 648&type=3
10632599_656090727840418_1400758915341281446_n.jpg
The BONE ZONE build thread.

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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by mlapaglia » Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:09 pm

Good thread. If anyone is wanting to make this for the v2, I've modified the files to work here: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5695&start=25#p52124

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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by 0110-m-p » Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:28 am

Got all the heat-set inserts installed and will hopefully be finishing it up this weekend. Still trying to decide if I want to spend the money on 1/4" acrylic panels for the entire enclosure or if I want to do painted wood with acrylic windows (would be MUCH cheaper).

Anyway on with the pictures...

Heat-set insert installation tip installed in my 40W soldering iron. Setting "4" on the iron seemed to work well.

Image

Pre-loaded inserts into the first top and bottom mounting bracket. Holes are a little undersized for these inserts, but a bit of extra heat fixed that problem.

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First set of inserts installed....really gives printed parts a more professional look.

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All mounting brackets complete with heat-set inserts...

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Shot of the stainless hardware and polycarbonate hinges that I am planning on using. Hinges will look awesome on acyrlic/polycarbonate doors...maybe not so much on wood :(.

Image
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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by Chrissi » Fri Nov 21, 2014 10:35 am

"Also designed up some lower mount retaining plates that pin it to the extrusion. I saw something like this in rymnd's heated enclosure thread, but no STL's were attached so I printed my own. If anyone wants the STL, I'll post it up (its a very tight fit)."

Could you post the STL file for the retainer thingies? Much appreciated!
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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by Delta Zee Solutions » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:51 am

I have looked on the McMaster site for the Heat-set insert installation tips but can't seem to find them... where did you get yours or did you make your own?

Thanks, Mark

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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by 0110-m-p » Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:26 pm

Delta Zee Solutions wrote:I have looked on the McMaster site for the Heat-set insert installation tips but can't seem to find them... where did you get yours or did you make your own?

Thanks, Mark


They are in the columns to the right of the inserts themselves. Here is the link...

http://www.mcmaster.com/#92160A131

Chrissi wrote:"Could you post the STL file for the retainer thingies? Much appreciated!
Chrissi


Sure, I'll post up the file tonight when I get home.
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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by 0110-m-p » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:34 pm

Here's the STL for the retainer plate.
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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by Chrissi » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:24 am

Thanks!
BTW, do you know Bruce Turrentine in Raleigh? He built our 13B-REW
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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by Chrissi » Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:19 pm

I noticed you have a MAX V1 as I do, how did you fit the upper enclosure mounts to the V1 upper melamine plate?
edit: okay I see they will in fact fit over the upper pulley mounts.
Next question; the E3DV6 hot end cold section probably is not going to be happy in this elevated temp. Piece of cake for the water cooled hot end guys, anybody have experience with the E3DV6 in an enclosure? Printing ABS.
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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by NETio » Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:51 am

I enclosed my Rostock Max V1 with Polystyrene foam insulation panels lined on the inside with radiant barrier insulation. I printed some brackets made to hold sheets of acrylic that I found here and taped the foam to them with foil tape. I did not put foam on the front due to lack of a door design. I just finished it off with a double layer of radiant barrier insulation with a hole cut in the middle which I cover with a sheet of acrylic attached via velcro (which I have hinged on one side with foil tape) and also some foam weatherstrip to help the door get a tighter seal. I also excluded the extruder from the inside of the chamber with radiant barrier insulation. On large prints that really need the heat I cover the really thin window with a piece of radiant barrier insulation held on with blue painters tape. All holes on the top and bottom plates of my Rostock are also covered with painters tape, as well as any gaps between the insulation and printer. I didn't want to put permanent tape on my printer where it would leave residue if removed. Overall it looks terrible from the outside but I get chamber temps of 60C+ which has let me print some pieces in ABS that would've otherwise cracked (I know because I couldn't print them before without splitting). I also switched to a PEI build platform which is wonderful.

My E3D has had no issues printing ABS even with the chamber hot and the bed at 115C (which is actually too hot and causes weird shrinkage at the bottom). As for PLA, my E3D has never printed PLA and even if yours does why do you need a hot chamber for PLA. I've settled on 90-105C as a good temperature, depending on room temperature, part size, and my particular mood when I'm playing with slicer settings that probably don't need changed. I've had some things stick wonderfully at 90, and some warp. Some plastics are fine at 105C, some get weird hourglass warping at the base. The cheap ABS plastics are the ones that like to warp in weird ways, and actually tend to curl off the bed too. IIRC before I exhausted my supply of ProtoParadigm ABS I was printing it at 103C or some odd number between 100 and 105. I forget how I arrived there, I think I measured bed temp with an IR thermometer and that was actually a true 100C or something. I've been playing with mainly Nylon for the last few months so that's my current experiment.


I've been planning on re-doing my enclosure to make it prettier but it's functional right now, and at the end of the day my printer is making damn good prints and that's what really matters. I'm afraid an all acrylic enclosure wouldn't get hot enough without active heating. Fun way to test your enclosure temp without using a thermometer, although not as accurate as a real thermometer: turn on just the heatbed and see how hot the extruder gets at it's home position up top. If you can hit 60C up there then you're doing it right!

Big part printed in ABS. Was a bit over 250mm tall (printed standing on edge).
Image

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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by Eaglezsoar » Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:49 am

I would like to see a picture of your enclosure!
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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by Chrissi » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:03 am

Thank you for the valuable feedback.
Glad to hear that the E3DV6 is functional in the heated enclosure.
I need to explore alternative mounts for the extruder to get it on top of the housing.
If I need to heat the enclosure I might explore using Goldenrod "dehumidifiers"; google them available for gun safes and marine suppliers. Stand them vertically alongside the tower extrusions.
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Re: Enclosure build to print ABS and Nylon bigger and faster

Post by JFettig » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:31 am

Goldenrod are very low power devices, 8 watts, it probably won't get the heat up high enough.

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