[NEW! 12Feb14] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Here's where you can find the official (and unofficial too) things like assembly instructions etc...
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TedMilker
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Re: [NEW! 18Dec13] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby TedMilker » Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:10 pm

Page 110:
You’ll need four 1/2” #4-40 socket head screws, four #4 flat washers and eight small round plastic spacers.

1/2" screws aren't long enough for stacking two plastic spacers. The screw just touches the insert lip. I have a RAMBo 1.2 if the PCB is thicker now or something. I'm going to pick up some 3/4" ones tomorrow.

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Re: [NEW! 18Dec13] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby geneb » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:46 pm

If the t-nut is fully seated, it should be long enough.

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Re: [NEW! 18Dec13] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby TedMilker » Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:35 pm

T-nuts are fully seated, flush with melamine and no cupping. They're just plain not long enough. *shrug*

edit: Added picture

Image
Barely enough thread to engage the t-nut, even if it did reach.

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Re: [NEW! 18Dec13] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby TedMilker » Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:29 am

An alternative LCD assembly to using #4 wood screws and possibly splitting the melamine:

Buy an 1/8" dowel at a hardware or hobby store.

Cut four 1" sections out of the dowel.

Enlarge the four holes on the faceplate with an 1/8" drill bit(they're already extremely close).

Assemble the faceplate, LCD and side mounting plates and transfer the holes you drilled out with an awl.

Remove the side mounting plates.

If your awl marks aren't centered on the side mounting plates, just center them by eye.

Drill out the marks on the side mounting plates with an 1/8" drill bit. You want to be perpendicular to the face, so this works best in a drill press with a vice but you could probably do it with a drill by hand if you're careful. You don't need to drill very deep and if you go too far, you'll break into the slots but it's not an issue.

Because of the interference with the rotary encoder pads, you're going to have to remove some of the material to get the holes in the mounting plate line up. I marked where the solder pads were hitting the slot with a pencil and used a sanding drum on my dremel to remove enough material to let the mounting plate slide further. These are on the inside of the mounting plate, so no one will ever see them.

Use a file to slightly chamfer one of the ends of each of the dowel sections. This lets you plug it into the hole easier.

Dab a little wood glue into the hole of the faceplate and press a dowel section into the hole, chamfered end first. Repeat for each hole.

Use a small saw to cut each of the dowels flush with the top of the faceplate and let dry.

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Re: [NEW! 18Dec13] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby Shizuma » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:59 pm

TedMilker wrote:Page 110:
You’ll need four 1/2” #4-40 socket head screws, four #4 flat washers and eight small round plastic spacers.

1/2" screws aren't long enough for stacking two plastic spacers. The screw just touches the insert lip. I have a RAMBo 1.2 if the PCB is thicker now or something. I'm going to pick up some 3/4" ones tomorrow.


Putting together my Rostock MAX today and even more frustrating there is that is says to use those 4 1/2" 4-40 socket head screws, the assembly manual also says to use those same 1/2" 4-40 socket head screws, that 6 clamps x 2 screws = 12 screws, + 4 for the RAMBo = 16, there are only 12 of those screws included in the kit per the packing list, which really sucks cause i'm stuck in the house since there is a blizzard going on here right now and now I stuck on the install because the required screws weren't in the kit :/

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Re: [NEW! 12Feb14] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby neurascenic » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:00 pm

I just built mine, and all the screws were there. I'm not sure about the specific screws, but they are divided up kinda funny. They are broken as sub kits, for lack of better words. That is the extruder, since it is sold by itself, has it's set, etc... I actually had extra items.
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Re: [NEW! 18Dec13] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby TedMilker » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:43 pm

Shizuma wrote:Putting together my Rostock MAX today and even more frustrating there is that is says to use those 4 1/2" 4-40 socket head screws, the assembly manual also says to use those same 1/2" 4-40 socket head screws, that 6 clamps x 2 screws = 12 screws, + 4 for the RAMBo = 16, there are only 12 of those screws included in the kit per the packing list, which really sucks cause i'm stuck in the house since there is a blizzard going on here right now and now I stuck on the install because the required screws weren't in the kit :/


Yeah. :( I found this was true with many screws after the main frame assembly but I have a ton of leftover 6-32 x1" screws and #4 washers. Ace Hardware has received a few trips to pick up miscellaneous stuff. You may want to get 10-20 additional #6 washers(if you use them everywhere like I did), I ran out of those early too.

geneb: Found a little thing for new calibration on page #217. You used the same Advanced Settings menu image for the Z-Height Option image.

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Re: [NEW! 12Feb14] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby geneb » Sun Feb 16, 2014 5:20 pm

*facepalm*

Good catch Ted, thanks! I'll get it fixed as soon as I can.

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Re: [NEW! 18Dec13] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby bdjohns1 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:56 am

TedMilker wrote:
Shizuma wrote:Putting together my Rostock MAX today and even more frustrating there is that is says to use those 4 1/2" 4-40 socket head screws, the assembly manual also says to use those same 1/2" 4-40 socket head screws, that 6 clamps x 2 screws = 12 screws, + 4 for the RAMBo = 16, there are only 12 of those screws included in the kit per the packing list, which really sucks cause i'm stuck in the house since there is a blizzard going on here right now and now I stuck on the install because the required screws weren't in the kit :/


Yeah. :( I found this was true with many screws after the main frame assembly but I have a ton of leftover 6-32 x1" screws and #4 washers. Ace Hardware has received a few trips to pick up miscellaneous stuff. You may want to get 10-20 additional #6 washers(if you use them everywhere like I did), I ran out of those early too.

geneb: Found a little thing for new calibration on page #217. You used the same Advanced Settings menu image for the Z-Height Option image.


Yeah, I ended up short on #6 washers and long on #4s, 6-32 1" screws, and a few other things. My rambo kit came with a few extra wire connectors I was able to make use of.

I'm waiting on some wire connectors to finalize all of my effector wiring setup, but the guide ended up working out fairly well for me.

A few things I noticed, some relevant for the guide, some not:
1) How you solder the big wires onto the Onyx matters, as well as their flexibility. Too stiff, and you'll have a hard time bending it to get around the heatshield. I nearly broke out a coping saw to make a larger notch to relieve stress on the wires.
2) The 7/64 drill bit worked fine for me mounting the LCD w/o splitting the melamine.
3) Not a manual matter, but I don't like the shortness of the Onyx bed screws - I feel like they're only engaging the T-nut by a couple threads. I need to find a specialty store around me to find some longer 4-40 flat head screws, though. 1" seems to be the longest commonly available at HD.
4) I didn't use the wiring slot on the bed to feed the Onyx wires through. It's much easier to put an XT60 connector on the bed wiring before you install the Onyx, and the wiring slot is not wide enough, plus I don't like how tight you need to s-curve the wire through it. I used the center hole instead.
5) For the belt tensioners, if you're not going to go with one of the alternate printed parts, I'd recommend using some fender washers instead of regular washers to spread the load out around the slot.
6) Tell folks to inspect their 1/8" shafts for the U-joints. I had one of them which had a couple of burrs on it (like it had been grabbed by vise-grips) preventing free rotation of the u-joint, so I had to have the seemecnc gang replace one of them - no big deal, just had to wait a couple days - nice that UPS Ground from them takes 1 day usually!
7) I needed to ream the holes in the U-joints a little bit to get them to slide on the 1/8 shafts and freely spin - I found that the tip of a small pair of needle-nose pliers worked well to chamfer the hole edge a little bit.

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Re: [NEW! 12Feb14] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby Eaglezsoar » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:18 pm

In addition to the list provided by bdjohns1, lubrication should be provided on the axles the ujoints turn on.
Gene, you may have done this already if so my apologies.

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Re: [NEW! 12Feb14] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby bdjohns1 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:08 pm

That wasn't mentioned in the guide, although I was thinking about it. I've got a big tube of white lithium grease lying around. I'm going bootstrap - get the stock printer working ok enough to print parts to mount an e3d hotend so I can do nylon, then move up to printing xnaron's magnetic arm parts.

The good news is that even the pre-0.91 calibration guide seems to be working well - I did some temp wiring to my hot end to heat it up for calibration, and I was able to get the bed dialed in with only 2 trips through adjusting the delta radius parameter. At some point, I might make a dial indicator mount, but no big rush.

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Re: [NEW! 12Feb14] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby Chrissi » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:01 pm

Really great bit of tech writing.
In the section on installing the Onyx heated bed, Randi was watching me struggle with the nails in the holes and tried to help at one point then said to stop struggling, remove all the nails, put in the screws one at a time but with a piece of masking tape on the bottom edge of each spacer, up the side, over the top and cover the screw head. Now take the whole assembly and lower it on to the bed - easy peezy! I used fine tweezers to pull the tape from under each spacer before tightening the screw. This went super easy this way.

Also, we used something like 14ga wire for the heat bed... super stiff. If the pass through hole was turned 90* it would be much easier to route the wires rather than the tight Z-bend they follow now, this would also reduce stress on the solder pads and connection to the bed. Shot myself in the foot here; think the RAMBO screw terminals take 16ga max =(
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Re: [NEW! 12Feb14] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby Chrissi » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:07 pm

OOOOO ooo oohhhh! dial indicator mount OMG yes perfect. Going to have to think about this. Would it not need some form of fine adjust screw to match it to the tip of the hot end? Moisten the back side of aluminum foil and squeegee it to the glass, use an LED circuit to indicate hot end contact?
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Re: [NEW! 12Feb14] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby geneb » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:16 pm

The whole dial indicator thing (imo) is way overkill. Why calibrate a machine to .0001 when a big humidity change will move the machine .0005+?

Follow the calibration instructions and make sure your hot end travel is perfectly parallel (trammel!) and you're done. If at some point in the future you want to go nuts and drag out the dial, knock yourself out. Until then, enjoy the machine. :) (Learn to walk before you hop in the turbine Long-EZ :D )

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Re: [NEW! 12Feb14] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby Chrissi » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:58 pm

Overkill... a friend who worked on the engine program for Space Ship One had just finished looking over our plane project, I told him we had not given it a name yet, his next words were "Overkill"
=)
No worries, we love this machine. Having difficulties keeping parts from curling (not stuck) from bed, "leans" (need another fan?) but much to learn yet.
Yes but will the humidity change move the whole bed the same amount? Machine #2 will be 1/2" 6061 bed.
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Re: [NEW! 12Feb14] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby bdjohns1 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:45 am

geneb wrote:The whole dial indicator thing (imo) is way overkill. Why calibrate a machine to .0001 when a big humidity change will move the machine .0005+?


Well, I'd be using a cheap Harbor Freight dial indicator, so there's no way I'm going into ten-thousandths land!

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Re: [NEW! 12Feb14] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby mhackney » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:05 pm

Gene, I read the new appendix on using the LCD to set the Z=0. I am confused! I had actually tried to use the LCD to do this about an hour before reading your description. I don't understand why only the Z Max Length is set and not X and Y? Don't these all have to be the same value or is something else magical going on?
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Re: [NEW! 12Feb14] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby geneb » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:45 pm

I think there's magic involved because I haven't noticed any issues with the Z being one value and X&Y being another after setting the Z through the LCD.

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Re: [NEW! 12Feb14] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby mhackney » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:46 pm

Take a look at the EEPROM window screen shot in the manual, it even shows the Z is different than X and Y Max Lengths. Can you check Orange Menace EEPROM and see what's there now?

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Re: [NEW! 12Feb14] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby geneb » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:24 am

X & Y max are 250.00, Z max is 353.947. Prints great.

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Re: [NEW! 12Feb14] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby mhackney » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:12 am

Ok, so I was completely confused! I thought the X, Y and Z MAX LENGTHS defined the distance from the end stop to the top of the print surface on a delta printer.

Now that I look at the comments, etc, I see that only the Z_MAX_LENGTH defines the distance from the top to the print surface - like on a cartesian printer. Does that mean that the X and Y max lengths define the cartesian distance along X and Y?

In the manual - and I think from the original source that most of us originally learned from (forget the link but it was a delta calibration web page) we have always been instructed to set the X Y and Z max lengths to the same value as measured (see page 168-169 and page 172 in the latest Rostock manual).

I just manually changed my X and Y max lengths in the EEPROM to 250mm and am printing fine so the firmware obviously does not care about those values for Z calculations.

I think part of the confusion is due overloading of the use of X, Y and Z for cartesian coordinates and the towers on the Max (and I think this came from the original delta printer and configuration in Marlin and Repetier). It might have been better to call the delta positions I, J, K or similar to keep this clear.

So given this, what do the X and Y max lengths do on a delta? And should the manual reflect the above (i.e. only need to change the Z value)?

Never to old to learn something!

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Re: [NEW! 12Feb14] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby Eaglezsoar » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:42 am

So I guess my questioning why you subtracted the values from the X and Y wasn't so weird after all.
And guess what? I don't understand a bit of all this Delta stuff and never will, all I care about is I Zero the Z
and it prints. The delta computations would have driven Einstein nuts, my mind is more like a Neanderthal that
has a hard time understanding why the wheel is round. :|

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Re: [NEW! 12Feb14] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby Catfang » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:59 pm

I think the confusion is caused by attempting to use two different coordinate systems with the same labels! :)

XYZ coordinates tends to mean the same thing in cartesian printers, whether you are talking about printer (stepper) coordinates or print coordinates. These are NOT the same thing in a delta. Most of the firmware settings people are referencing are referring to the print coordinates, which are almost universally given in cartesian space (at least in my experience), regardless of printer type. A cartesian printer will (more or less) directly move along these same print coordinates using its XYZ axes/steppers. However, in a delta, this is only describing the movement of the effector, and is NOT directly associated with the XYZ steppers.

An example:
Think of a simple planar square. In a cartesian printer, you can move the X axis [stepper] by itself, then the Y, then the X in reverse, and then the Y in reverse; now you have made a very simple square. The printer (stepper) coordinates and print (object) coordinates are pretty much the same thing. However, this is impossible to do with a delta; all single axis [stepper] movements describe an arc, not a straight line. To create a simple planar square as we did with cartesian printer will require coordinated movement from all three axes (steppers) to execute. Unfortunately, we still call these three axes "XYZ", which leads to confusion.

I recommend that you should assume all XYZ coordinates to be in cartesian space unless someone says otherwise.

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Re: [NEW! 12Feb14] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby mhackney » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:09 pm

Exactly Catfang! And I started with a cartesian printer and work on cartesian CNC milling machines and lathes. I found it odd from the beginning that the Rostock towers were called X, Y, Z and it seems the firmware authors were doing that too.

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Re: [NEW! 12Feb14] Rostock MAX Assembly Manual

Postby Catfang » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:05 am

Cartesian coordinates have been labelled XYZ by convention for about forever (think of your geometry classes), but even this has issues (see "handedness" if you are interested). When radial machining became more common, "A" was used to denote this additional dimension (which is not a cartesian coordinate, but a radial one instead). Finally, controller card designers decided to label the three common stepper drive outputs after the most common axes "XYZ" (and "A" for a fourth axis). For someone attempting to hook up the wiring, this makes things easier for 99% of the applications. However, for anything using non-cartesian coordinates (e.g. SCARA arm, delta printer, eggbot, etc.), this actually tends to make things more confusing, not less. In the case of our deltas, the "XYZ" towers are really labels rather than axes. There is no standard convention [labels] for the delta coordinate space (at least that I'm aware of), so we end up borrowing cartesian labels. It's really more of a language deficiency than an error on anyone's part.


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