Major issue with e3d head upgrade

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burro breath
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Major issue with e3d head upgrade

Post by burro breath » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:46 pm

so I decided to make the upgrade from the stock head to an E3d head. I got everything set up and went to go print the first print and it printed the skirt beautifully. then printed the perimeter of the part perfectly and then just stopped extruding plastic. I am using ABS. the extruding motor is still turning and the head is still hot. I went ahead and pulled the guide tube for the filament as well as the filament out of the head and noticed a ring around the plastic filament that prevented the plastic filament from entering the hot zone of the head and effectively stopped flow out of the nozzle. any ideas as to why this is happening. im using the same thermistor and heater as my old head was so I know the temp it dead right. below I have an cad model of what is happening to the filament since I don't have a good enough camera to see the actual issue. any and all help would be great.
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stonewater
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Re: Major issue with e3d head upgrade

Post by stonewater » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:14 pm

you need to double check your hot end temps with a thermocouple. its not hot enough...

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Re: Major issue with e3d head upgrade

Post by burro breath » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:30 pm

Checked temp. its plenty hot. I tried going up to 240C for ABS and I still had the same issue.

I also tried pla at 160C,165C,170C,175C and had the exact same issues that happen with ABS

I also tried redoing the RTV silicone around the thermistor. nothing has worked. Most likely will be throwing the head out and going back to old one

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Re: Major issue with e3d head upgrade

Post by Eaglezsoar » Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:54 pm

burro breath wrote:Checked temp. its plenty hot. I tried going up to 240C for ABS and I still had the same issue.

I also tried pla at 160C,165C,170C,175C and had the exact same issues that happen with ABS

I also tried redoing the RTV silicone around the thermistor. nothing has worked. Most likely will be throwing the head out and going back to old one


Instead of throwing it out put it up for sale on our members market sub-forum.
We would need a picture and the version of the E3D.

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Re: Major issue with e3d head upgrade

Post by Tincho85 » Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:04 pm

Where is happening that?
between heatsink / heatbreak?
between nozzle / heatbreak?
or... between heatsink / ptfe tube?

The heatsink should be cold to touch when fan is on.
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Re: Major issue with e3d head upgrade

Post by burro breath » Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:32 pm

the heat sink is cold to the touch with the fan on. I'm not sure where the issue is occurring. my guess is after the heat sink since the heat sink is cold

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Re: Major issue with e3d head upgrade

Post by bot » Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:11 pm

The biggest downfall of the e3d hotends is the connection between PFTE tube and the heatbreak. It has a ~112 degree "countersink"... so even if the PTFE tube is cut perfectly flush at a right-angle, and it sits as far down into the heat break as possible, there is a small lip in the transition. This can be seen in the photos from their own website:

Heatbreak 2 4web-1000x1000.jpg

half HB with filament 4web-1000x1000.jpg

Getting the bowden to reliably sit like this is hard, even, sometimes, as the heatbreak transition isn't so smooth, and the push-to-connect fitting doesn't always get a grab at the right spot. Check for play in the bowden connection, there should be NO up and down movement at all allowed. Literally zero, otherwise your bowden tube is floating freely and your retracts will have to overcome this, as well as many other problems.
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Re: Major issue with e3d head upgrade

Post by burro breath » Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:34 pm

thanks for all the replies. I will make sure there is no play. I also opened up the through hole another 10 thousandths hoping that this will help. either opening up the hole will help or totally trash the head. either way its a try.

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Re: Major issue with e3d head upgrade

Post by jason128 » Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:59 pm

I had the exact issue when i had the retracts set too long- i think the hot material gets pulled back, then squished into the gap discussed above.

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Re: Major issue with e3d head upgrade

Post by DSteck » Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:37 pm

jason128 wrote:I had the exact issue when i had the retracts set too long- i think the hot material gets pulled back, then squished into the gap discussed above.

This. Beware what kind of retract you use with it.

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Re: Major issue with e3d head upgrade

Post by teoman » Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:02 pm

Usimg a pencil sjarpener on the tip og the bowden tube??

Designing a pencil sharpener with the proper angle for the bowden tube?

I have never seen one of those hotends but it might be a solution.
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Re: Major issue with e3d head upgrade

Post by jram » Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:23 pm

I was having the same problem. Filing a chamfer on the end of the bowden tube worked wonders for me. I also inserted the bowden tube using a screwdriver underneath to ensure no play. Sometimes the heat break will also work loose due to where the strain relief is attached on your mount. On mine it rotated loose after 50 hours of printing.
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Re: Major issue with e3d head upgrade

Post by bot » Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:14 pm

teoman wrote:Usimg a pencil sjarpener on the tip og the bowden tube??

Designing a pencil sharpener with the proper angle for the bowden tube?

I have never seen one of those hotends but it might be a solution.


I prototyped two iterations of a bowden-tube sharpener, like a pencil sharpener. Neither worked. One almost did, but it just cut the tube into a never-ending spiral, identical to spiral-wrap for wires. :P The angle of a normal pencil sharpener is wrong, and makes it hard/impossible to use to get the angle needed for an e3d. Someone would need to reverse engineer a pencil sharpener, which is harder than it sounds!
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Re: Major issue with e3d head upgrade

Post by Sonrisa3D » Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:59 pm

Yep - check retract lengths.

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Re: Major issue with e3d head upgrade

Post by teoman » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:05 pm

Dremel tool instead of blade?

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1024834
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Re: Major issue with e3d head upgrade

Post by bot » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:07 pm

teoman wrote:Dremel tool instead of blade?

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1024834


That may be a great idea. Keeping the tube rigidly and firmly held in place is required, but a jig like that would work well. I don't have a dremel tho!
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Re: Major issue with e3d head upgrade

Post by mhackney » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:45 am

Just a question, you did change the nozzle diameter in your slicer right? The stock nozzle is .5mm, the E3Ds typically come with a .4mm nozzle.

I posted on the Bowden fit just the other day here - search my posts. I use a pencil sharpener and then cut 1mm off the end with a sharp hobby knife. Takes 10 seconds and you get a much better fit. The other area where people have trouble setting up the E3D hotends is the nozzle to heatbreak. You have to start with a small gap between the nozzle base and heat block then snug the break up against the nozzle, then tighten at temperature. The instructions explain and show this well, follow them to the letter. If you have even a little gap between the nozzle and heat break it will fill with plastic and ultimately cause a jam.

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