printer leveling

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BuckeyeVolunteer
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Re: printer leveling

Post by BuckeyeVolunteer » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:23 pm

I found by accident and I don't know the reason why but it happened, when I went to calibrate my z height I turned the knob the wrong way and rehomed it accidentally afyer i was done I set the new z height and homed everything then tested it again and it was way off, so maybe a switch is hanging up or getting noise into the input. I would also completely reload the software and firmware for everything. Just my 2 cents worth

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Re: printer leveling

Post by gaexcalibur » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:32 pm

ok so i usually try benchy as an initial test to see if everything is working correctly. i also do a series of short concentric circles to see if things are level. so as for leveling, the bed was hot 55 the hot end was 200 as said in the book. i had my daughter help as she helped build the printer and we followed the book instructions very carefully. it was level the concentric circle print was perfect came out wonderful. so then its up to benchy, ran it and it came out wonderful within half a mm of perfection so i was happy. so this took quite a while so when benchy was finished i turned it off for the night. came back in the morning turned it on to run elephant. that proceeded to crash thoroughly into the bed. the bed was up to the same temp as benchy and nothing had changed. so i attached both benchy and elephant g code to this message. i reflashed the rostock memory and completely deleted slicer 3 and reinstalled everything from scratch. so this is where i am it for some reason cannot remember its settings once it is turned off or something i have no idea. all i know for sure is if i level the printer then print it works if i do not level it and just try to run any program it will not work. once turned off it appears to loose its mind and reset the zero position. no idea why?
i will pull the eprom when i get a chance. just finished a 12 and need a break
thanks
Attachments
3DBenchy.gcode
(4.72 MiB) Downloaded 17 times
elephant_longFlareTail.gcode
(22.73 MiB) Downloaded 20 times

IMBoring25
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Re: printer leveling

Post by IMBoring25 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:16 am

Probably doesn't have anything to do with it, as those should be the firmware defaults, but your start gcode is in a different order. I always like to reiterate mm and absolute coordinates before doing any moves. Additionally, the lift nozzle line is superfluous on a delta...That's for a cartesian bot.

I can't help but think you might have an intermittent continuity issue on the endstops or some amount of crosstalk through the wires, causing a premature stop during the home.

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Re: printer leveling

Post by Gaffanon » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:50 am

im using matter control for slicing on my machine in the past on another machine slicr and Cura gave horrible results pretty much exactly like you were having since i switched no issues. your print is only as good as the slicer try matter control and see if it rectifies it

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Re: printer leveling

Post by gaexcalibur » Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:14 am

i really do not think that it is the gcode because i did benchy the first time and no problems. then i printed the elephant and it worked ok so the next day i tried printing the same exact elephant without change and that then crashed into the bed, cracking it in two. so if the it was the gcode is wrong than it would have crashed on the first elephant so what does that that mean. i still have not replaced the broken glass so i have not been able to try to do anything with my printer so anything else will have to wait until i have time to get back into it.

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Re: printer leveling

Post by Xenocrates » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:14 pm

It's quite sad you're having these issues. As a print of the same code completed, and you have a working (if sporadically) configuration, it has to be a physical issue of some sort, although I cannot imagine what it might be. Although I would remove your Z lift from the start G code (The Z5. line), just to play it safe as that won't do anything if all is working well (It could be that sometimes the controller is thinking it has executed the move when it hasn't in reality, thus making it think it's 5MM higher). You'll have to check the steppers and endstops electrically and mechanically, as well as your end effector, and a large portion of the other mechanical parts of the printer. I wish you the best of luck with it, and hope it's just something simple, if removing that Z lift doesn't do it. As you lack glass, I would attempt to run the printer in dry-run, with a piece of styrofoam standing in for the bed, as that will cushion both the bed and the head if something goes wrong, and will let you trace out your footprint, to see if there is a specific failure point.
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Re: printer leveling

Post by IMBoring25 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:16 pm

Unless it's dropping the EEPROM values (you are saving them, right?), it sounds like it must be sometimes getting an endstop indication before it actually reaches the endstop. I'd home it, then move it manually down 100 or so mm, and repeat for a while, and watch for whether it actually reaches all three endstops every time.

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Re: printer leveling

Post by Eaglezsoar » Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:51 pm

When you built the printer did you run the stop switch wiring next to the power wires? Did you twist most of the wires?
This really is beginning to sound that noise is being induced into the stop switch wiring.

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Re: printer leveling

Post by Cox » Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:44 pm

It really sounds like a firmware issue since you are able to actually print. It can be frustrating at times but I just take a step back and deal with any issues one day at a time!

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Re: printer leveling

Post by gaexcalibur » Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:49 pm

well new glass and some more time spent leveling and right now a hamster is printing pretty well so here is hoping i am going to try the same elephant as before. as for the wires i did twist them, the old tape to an electric screwdriver and run them slowly. so i know my wires are well setup. if anything i will pick up some shielded wire, given the nature of the stop switches and the low voltages of the wires i can find some thin shielded wire and run the shield to ground carefully to make sure there is no interference. i have completely rewritten the firmware a couple of times to make sure there is nothing left and what i have is good. i am hoping the elephant will print so i can begin printing my r2 unit. so here is hoping i have taken care of it for a while at least. sorry guys i have not written in a while been working 5 tens minimum and 8 on saturday so i have not had any time to work on anything lately. this thanksgiving has been my only play time in weeks. i will let everyone know if this works or not

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Re: printer leveling

Post by teoman » Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:31 am

For now, before you start a print set your speed on the machine lcd to %25 (as low as it will go).

That way you may notice something going wonky, and collisions will be slower.

The screws that hold the endstop switches comes to mind. But i may have mentioned that before.
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Re: printer leveling

Post by gaexcalibur » Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:27 am

still in the same boat as before i have to level the bed before each and every print it will not maintain its level so something is very wrong with this printer and now my hot end has died. even running slowly it still went into the bed and broke everything. it was a little above the bed extruding a little below and a lot above right at the peak. so there goes another bunch of money for a new hot end. i think at this point i need to start over completely from scratch with this printer take it completely apart rebuild it with the proper wiring and properly seperate everything using shielded cable higher gauge wire for the hot end and try to fix some of the issues that way. nothing i am trying seems to be working so it has to be somewhere in the build or how something is run internally as nothing is working to fix this machine.

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Re: printer leveling

Post by geneb » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:51 am

Don't mess with the wires. As supplied, the wiring is perfectly adequate for the tasks given.

If you're constantly slamming the hot end into the bed, you've either got an improper calibration, a bad z-height or a mechanical issue. The ONLY wiring problem that could cause a calibration issue would be if you ran power wires in the same tower with the three end stop wire pairs. (You'd have the same problem if you tightly bound the end stop wires in the base with one or more stepper wire bundles.)

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Re: printer leveling

Post by gaexcalibur » Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:02 am

I am rebuilding it to change all of the wiring to shielded cable so there is no chance of interference between the wiring. if all else fails I can always make a wire chase at my shop to run the wiring in to look neater I am thinking of that just in case my shielded cable will not fit down the too tiny center of the towers. The added benefit of rebuilding the thing is if there is a mechanical issue I will hopefully spot it when I take everything apart. anyways this will have to wait until probably February as I am working 6 days 12 hours a day till then so it does not leave a lot of time to fix the printer.

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Re: printer leveling

Post by geneb » Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:55 pm

The 18ga wire is totally sufficient for the hot end. There's no need to add "shielded" wire. Follow the wiring guidelines in the manual.

Make sure you've got the z height set correctly and you've got the machine properly calibrated.

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Re: printer leveling

Post by gaexcalibur » Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:41 am

as i have said gene tried it, tried it, tried it. it will not stay level from one print to the next. there is either an electrical or mechanical issue with the printer. having gone through the mechanical completely and throughly the only thing left is electrical. i have to be getting a cross signal some where in the wiring it cannot be anything else i have tried it all

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Re: printer leveling

Post by BuckeyeVolunteer » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:00 am

check if the hot end is loose

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Re: printer leveling

Post by thedoble » Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:00 am

I'm not an expert but it sounds like the EEPROM is not saving the z-height values.

Are you printing from a laptop or from an SD card?

Whichever it is - try swapping to the other, see if the problem goes away?
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Re: printer leveling

Post by gaexcalibur » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:21 pm

Well I finally got a new hot end, carefully installed my thermistor and ceramic heat elements. I then ran the pic autotune and once it hit 200 degrees I tried to run the extruder to prime the hot end. Then the hot end came off of the ceramic isolator. Upon further examination the ceramic was melted. I even had my thermomitor on the hot end checking the temp so I did not see it get above 210 during the pic test. But me ceramic melted anybody have any ideas? It did not even survive the first 5 minutes of operation.

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Re: printer leveling

Post by Xenocrates » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:21 am

I think you mean PEEK, if you're using the SeemeCNC hotend. If not, you likely need to change the thermistor setting in the firmware (if you haven't already) to what shipped with that hotend, and make sure it's well seated and making thermal contact.

If it's not a SeemeCNC hotend, which one are you using?
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Re: printer leveling

Post by gaexcalibur » Fri Feb 05, 2016 2:25 am

it is the stock seemecnc hot end with the peak ceramic separator. my rostock is almost completely stock as i cant get it to run this way why upgrade. plus you need a different configuration to mount other hot ends and if i could 3d print i could make something but i am still suck without printing. so yes brand new seeme hot end lasted 5 minutes before the ceramic died. and yes the thermistor was really in there it was reading plus or minus a couple of degrees, not lots i did have a thermometer on the hot end to verify temp before i let it run on its own.

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Re: printer leveling

Post by geneb » Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:54 am

PEEK isn't ceramic, it's a fancy plastic. It will start to melt at 247C. (Ceramic will melt, but at thousands of degrees. :D )

If you're using a stock hot end, there's no reason to fiddle with the thermistor settings in the firmware.

What *specific* device were you using to externally track the temperature of the hot end?

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Re: printer leveling

Post by gaexcalibur » Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:02 am

fluke multimeter with the thermocouple attachment placed at the base of the brass end. I was not trying to tune in the tip just get my initial settings to start from. nothing fancy m303 s200 as specified in the manual. and the thermistor was really in there I destroyed the little thing trying to pop it out to see the extent of the damage. fortunately I do have extra :)

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Re: printer leveling

Post by geneb » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:29 am

That's really weird. Thermistors don't typically mis-read that badly.

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Re: printer leveling

Post by KAS » Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:37 am

You wont get that accurate of a reading by just touching the thermocouple to the outside. You'll need to have it encapsulated somehow to keep the ambient air from lowering the value.

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