Poorly Manufactured Rostock Max - Should I Bin It?

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analog_banana
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Poorly Manufactured Rostock Max - Should I Bin It?

Post by analog_banana » Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:53 pm

Hi, this is a request for advice and opinions from the Rostock Max community:
I've been trying for over two years to get my Rostock Max v1 UK edition working, at this point I'm wondering:
Should I try to fix it? Rebuild it? bin it?

I bought it from the now defunct Creative Machines in the United Kingdom.

At the time SeemeCNC seemed quite optimistic about distributing their gear in the UK, and I thought I'd be OK buying form their UK partnered distributor-
an opinion based on this post from Jon at SeemeCNC:
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=1034

Many hours have gone into this machine, but no consistent up-time yet. I am very grateful to all on the forums who have tried to help me get it working.
After voicing my worries to SeemeCNC Jon Olly said this to me:

Per the numerous emails and parts sent, we have done everything we thought we could to provide you with what you needed to get your 'kit' working. Unfortunately, you purchased the machine from creativemachines, and he sold only a partial kit, with many many modifications from our design. Any and all changes he made were out of our control, including using different electronics/firmware and some of the hardware used to assemble the machine. Unfortunately, we are sorry to say we do not know what all those changes were, as he did not stay a distributor for long, and this is one of the reasons apparently.


I'm not blaming SeemeCNC, but maybe I bought a lemon, and maybe it was a mistake to assume the UK distributor was legitimate ?

Has anyone had got any opinions on what I should do with this printer?

Based on Jon's communication I fear I may have been sold a cut-price / faulty Rostock Max kit.
Is there a way I can ascertain which parts are good? - If SeemeCNC don't know what I have bought, how can I figure it out?

If I can work out what's worth keeping, I'd love to hear opinions/experiences on upgrading a Rostock Max v1.

...Or have things moved along so much, would I be better off scrapping the whole machine and starting afresh?

Apologies if the above sounds negative, I may give up on the Rostock Max soon, but I've learned a lot on the journey...
Thanks,
Chris.
Last edited by analog_banana on Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Poorly Manufactured Rostock Max - Should I Bin It?

Post by Polygonhell » Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:57 pm

TheV1 was and is a good machine, I'm still using mine bought from the original kickstarter.
Why don't you start by posting some pictures of the machine and describing the issues, I'd imagine most issues are probably addressable with some patience.

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Re: Poorly Manufactured Rostock Max - Should I Bin It?

Post by analog_banana » Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:09 pm

Hi Polygonhell,

I know now that the UK distributed Rostock Maxes were not at all the same machine as that of the Kickstarter, or USA retail edition.

Re pics/description:
Over 160 posts from me, many with pictures - mostly about this machine:
search.php?author_id=673&sr=posts

It's pretty long and boring read :p
key points - machine sold with different control board / parts of unknown compatability / never got uptime or consistency / troubleshot everything many times / replaced many parts

So a fix may be impractical.
At this stage I'm looking at the best way to move on, looking more for ideas about a complete rebuild or repurposing the usable components -
If SeemeCNC themselves have no Idea what went into my Rostock Max, I'm reluctant to keep throwing time and mone into the pit

(again sorry if it this sounds negative - but the facts are in th OP)
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Re: Poorly Manufactured Rostock Max - Should I Bin It?

Post by Jimustanguitar » Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:16 pm

Hey mate, forgive me if this sounds too blunt I mean no offence, but nobody's going to dig through 100+ posts to sum up what's going on with your machine. Can you summarize what parts are different than the standard kit and what parts you're struggling to get to work properly?

You mentioned in one of the posts that the electronics were different, did you not get a Rambo board?

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Re: Poorly Manufactured Rostock Max - Should I Bin It?

Post by Polygonhell » Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:22 pm

The ramps shouldn't be a big issue, I ran my max off one for a couple of weeks when I blew a fuse on the rambo in the first week of it's existence.
MDF vs melamine shouldn't be an issue, though I'd prefer the latter.
You have to break this stuff down, mechanical comes first then firmware, calibration and fiddling with the actual extrusion parameters.
At some level it doesn't matter what the printer or electronics are it's all the same, until you can move the head around reliably, your pissing in the wind trying to extrude plastic. A lot of this process is knowing what good looks like, and knowing what to change when something fails a particular way. It all takes patience, and someone who know s what they are looking at helps.

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Re: Poorly Manufactured Rostock Max - Should I Bin It?

Post by stonewater » Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:30 pm

well it sounds to me like you need a decent inventory of what is from seeme and what is not. if it is mechanically correct and can be calibrated, then its electronics, people here can help a lot with that. on the mechanical end its either a piece of junk or its solid.

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Re: Poorly Manufactured Rostock Max - Should I Bin It?

Post by analog_banana » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:20 am

No Offence Taken Jim,
I'm still not printing consistently after 160 posts and the collective wisdom of all the experts here, so please, don't you or anyone else waste your time going over my build logs again!

The reason I have doubts about continuing to troubleshoot my build is because Jon says he cannot vouch for the quality or correctness of "any or all" of the parts I was sold.
If anyone knows of someone who bought a Rostock from the UK distributor and got it working that would really help and offer me some direction.

I think it's going to be quicker to grab the key functional components from this machine and start over, hopefully losing as many faults as I can in the process -

So I'm thinking - keep the motors / PSU / hotend / extruder / heated bed / rails
buy new melamine parts / arms / rambo board ???

P.S.
The only difference I can see is I got a Ramps 1.4 not a Rambo
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Re: Poorly Manufactured Rostock Max - Should I Bin It?

Post by geneb » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:02 am

If the part is injection molded plastic, chances are very high that it's from SeeMeCNC.

One thing you can do right off the bat is to remove the 5th roller from the back of the three v1 cheapskates. They're not required.

You could also order a v2 upgrade kit that is essentially all the laser cut melamine parts (maybe other bits as well, I don't know) and you'd re-use most of the hardware from the v1 machine.

In the end, it's all about how much (more) effort you want to put into the process and how much money you want to throw at the problem. :)

Note that if you want to go the v2 route and you can get your hands on the right material, you can always hit SeeMeCNC's github repository and grab the DXF files they use to laser cut the parts. From there you just need to find a local vendor that will cut the material for you. I'd compare that cost with whatever SeeMeCNC would charge you for the v2 upgrade kit. Might be worth it, might not. Either way, good luck. I'm sorry CM did you a bad turn. :(

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Re: Poorly Manufactured Rostock Max - Should I Bin It?

Post by analog_banana » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:54 am

Thanks Gene, I really appreciate your help over the years trying to get this working, sorry it was probably a waste of time!!
Given that SeemeCNC endorsed CreativeMachines as legitimate distribution partners here on this forum, I do feel a bit ripped off.

Does anyone know the exact spec for Max v2 the Melamine sheet? (type/density of core material, surface coating type, and overall thickness?)
I can't see that info on Github.
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Re: Poorly Manufactured Rostock Max - Should I Bin It?

Post by teoman » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:04 am

Tell us a bit about yourself.

How are your finances. Did you save up to get this? Or did you get it for fun or business?

Did you enjoy fiddling with it (had you succeded in the end that is).



If i were in your shoes, first i would make sure that my electronics / motors / hotend work. (they do not have to be connected, just the electronics).

If that is the case then all you need is the extra parts for the frame. While you are rebuilding it, what "I" would do, if finances permit is get the frame, carriages and other stuff from tricklaser.
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Re: Poorly Manufactured Rostock Max - Should I Bin It?

Post by analog_banana » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:30 am

Hi Teoman,
I'm not rich compared to the average American, I'm about average income for the UK
The Rostock Max was the single most expensive thing I purchased in 2013.
I bought it for fun, I have a couple of business ideas for the software side 3D printing, but they are pipe dreams for now.
Tinkering has been enjoyable, but as you can tell I am running out of resolve.

All the electronics "work" - While searching for the weak point I have successively swapped in a replacement extruder, replacement hot end, replacement PSU, replacement controller board.
but the machine is not reliable as a system. I have pointed my finger at every part, including myself, as the problem at some point!

I've checked out the Tricklaser metal frame - looks great, do I need to make a lot of ancilliary plastic parts with that frame to make it work - they don't seem to sell them?
Ho Hum...
Rostock Max MDF Kit purchased from Creative Machines UK April 2013
RAMPS 1.4
EZStrruder
SeeMeCNC Bowden Hotend V1
Onyx
Fware: Repetier 0.91
Sware: Repetier-Host V0.95D

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Re: Poorly Manufactured Rostock Max - Should I Bin It?

Post by Jimustanguitar » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:48 pm

analog_banana wrote:I've checked out the Tricklaser metal frame - looks great, do I need to make a lot of ancilliary plastic parts with that frame to make it work - they don't seem to sell them?


viewtopic.php?f=61&t=7998

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Re: Poorly Manufactured Rostock Max - Should I Bin It?

Post by jesse » Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:10 pm

Polygonhell wrote:TheV1 was and is a good machine, I'm still using mine bought from the original kickstarter.
Why don't you start by posting some pictures of the machine and describing the issues, I'd imagine most issues are probably addressable with some patience.


Me too

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Re: Poorly Manufactured Rostock Max - Should I Bin It?

Post by Holy1 » Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:23 am

Harvest the electronics, belts and rails and build yourself a nice little Cartesian printer. They are much simpler. I did it with one of my deltas.
Orion to Cartesian viewtopic.php?f=59&t=7808

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Re: Poorly Manufactured Rostock Max - Should I Bin It?

Post by geneb » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:10 am

No, don't.

It's a waste of good parts.

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Re: Poorly Manufactured Rostock Max - Should I Bin It?

Post by Eric » Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:05 pm

There's nothing inherently wrong with Ramps 1.4 electronics assembly. The Rambo is basically the same thing combined into one board, with a few extra mosfet outputs and digipots on the drivers. So long as you don't need multiple extruders or the like, Ramps is as capable and reliable as any other...and WAY cheaper to fix if you do blow up any part of it.

Most of the Americans travelling to the UK are probably poor representatives of "average". The average American is likely not as rich as you think.

Anyway, of course you shouldn't literally bin it. If you really can't stand the sight of it any more, advertise/sell the thing as/is. Start with the marketplace in these forums....someone else in UK/europe may jump on the chance to take on your problem child for a cheap enough price.

Sure you can reuse the parts for another project....if you trust the parts, which I'm not sure you do. They're probably fine, you're just not able to figure out what your real problem(s) are. And the next project will probably have similar problems...it's the nature of complicated kits such as this.

If you want us to help identify genuine/fake parts, you're going to have to post some new pictures, or at least repost some of the old ones.

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