Vertical Banding Revisited

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mhackney
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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby mhackney » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:33 pm

No offense Jim but that sucks! What is your machine config and I assume Repetier firmware?

I printed one in translucent red just because it was already loaded. It looks really nice but you can actually see the straight 25% infill "ends" through the sidewalls so it looks like banding but the surface is actually smooth. It looks very different than your photo. Those bands look pronounced enough to feel - can you actually feel them?

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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby KAS » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:35 pm

I just started the print, with S3D.

On a side note, get to try out some new black PLA with awesome temperature ranges...
20150403_222143.jpg

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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby mhackney » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:37 pm

Wow, what is that filament?

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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby teoman » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:44 pm

Nice looking banding. I bet you could not get that pattern on a part even if you wanted.
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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby KAS » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:45 pm

just some junk I got off amazon because it was cheap and on prime. This is my first print with it, so we'll see.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=bl_sr_indus ... e=16310091

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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby KAS » Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:32 am

Looks like mine is about the same. I can feel the banding on the flat sections more than the circle.
20150404_002751.jpg

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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby 3D-Print » Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:05 am

mhackney, Awesome "BandAid" model to test this problem, especially the hexagon offset with the square!

I will print this later when home from work.

Jimustanguitar, great link on how you can see the effect of how a stepper can be manipulated. More and more this seems to fit with how the controller software and motherboard handles the steppers and what the mathematical modeling/programming/output is for linear and curvilinear movement. This pattern would be exacerbated by all the parameters and variables of print settings, printer calibration, and printer speed as everyone has mentioned.

It would be interesting to print a single layer and look with a scanning election microscope, at this layer relative to the X, Y, and Z-planes as well as 30 degrees off of each axis. I bet the patten we are seeing would show up and would reflect the movement of the head which is a very fine "Z" pattern with a variable frequency pending the position on the print bed. This Z pattern would be affected by the angle of the print line relative to the X,Y and Z-axes and the precision of the print settings, printer calibration and speed.

I will print using MatterControl.
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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby Jimustanguitar » Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:20 pm

mhackney wrote:No offense Jim but that sucks! What is your machine config and I assume Repetier firmware?


Newest Repetier from the SeeMeCNC Git (about a month old) on a Rambo 1.1b. 20 tooth pulleys... Pretty standard.

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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby KAS » Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:16 pm

No idea what revision Rambo but its all stock except the .4 E3D V6 with same Repetier #define REPETIER_VERSION "091S"

This is the other issue I've been looking into:
http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?1,214 ... msg-214990

I'm wondering if the banding is somehow related to the smooth idler and the toothed belts as mentioned in the post.

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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby 3D-Print » Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:46 pm

Here are two pictures of my print. Note the line in the middle of the hexagon - happened when I close the keyboard drawer of my desk too hard! :-(

Back to the test print....... What I noticed was that looking straight at the print (as it printed - second image looking straight at the square) you can see that the top square layer has banding which is deeper and a higher frequency than looking at the front edges of the hexagon which are 45 degrees off if the square. The edges of the hexagon which are parallel to the edges of the square has the same level of irregularity as the square but as noted the frequency is less. The circle has banding but is less than the straight edges. With the circle, the frequency is even less than the hexagon.

This was printed with MatterControl using MaterControl Slicer. I am printing another one now using Cura Slicer with MatterControl since I noticed the steppers sounded different with the Cura print.

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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby mhackney » Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:40 pm

This is with the stock ezStruder and normal stepper. Running 32 microsteps on an Azteeg X3 Pro Repetier 0.93.3 firmware printed via repetier host on a mac

FullSizeRender.jpg


Interestingly, there is an obvious diagonal banding on the hex and square on all sides but none on the cylinder. I'll switch over to my geared stepper ezStruder and print another. Time is tight this weekend with Easter preparations and I head to Rochester, NY early Monday for my first day on the new job. Hopefully I can get this print done before then, otherwise it will be next Friday.

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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby 3D-Print » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:33 pm

mhackney wrote:This is with the stock ezStruder and normal stepper. Running 32 microsteps on an Azteeg X3 Pro Repetier 0.93.3 firmware printed via repetier host on a mac

FullSizeRender.jpg


Interestingly, there is an obvious diagonal banding on the hex and square on all sides but none on the cylinder. I'll switch over to my geared stepper ezStruder and print another. Time is tight this weekend with Easter preparations and I head to Rochester, NY early Monday for my first day on the new job. Hopefully I can get this print done before then, otherwise it will be next Friday.


Interesting! I do see the diagonal banding and it looks like there is also some subtle vertical banding!?
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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby 3D-Print » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:37 pm

I looked at every angle in low light and direct sun light and do not see any diagonal banding at all. Just the vertical banding. The circle as mentioned looks good except were the outer edge crossed over.
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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby 3D-Print » Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:10 pm

Here is my Cura Sliced print! The cylinder is near perfect. The hexagon is worse than the square.
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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby KAS » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:32 pm

I don't have any difference in any of the flat surfaces, matter of fact it even lines up when you reflect the correct way when looking from above.
That's really the trick. The parts don't look bad in person, it's just aligning it a certain ways so the camera picks up the variations.

Ultimately, I'm trying to make it look as bad as possible.
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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby 3D-Print » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:06 pm

Agree. Here is a close up. As close as I can get it and focus. This is as bad as I can make it which is in moderate light. This is my second Cura Sliced print..
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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby 3D-Print » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:12 pm

I think what is interesting is that the banding you get is the same on the square and it looks similar on the hexagon when the edges are parallel. With my print they look different. ???
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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby jdurand » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:55 pm

As another sample from a crazy expensive printer, this was just printed on a PolyJet printer. High resolution print and still has bands.
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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby KAS » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:14 am

jdurand wrote:As another sample from a crazy expensive printer, this was just printed on a PolyJet printer. High resolution print and still has bands.


Then you look at printers like the Stacker 3D. Fantastic looking prints, although they're only posting what they want you to see right now. But at-least they have a video of it printing.



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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby Jimustanguitar » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:25 am

I've been impressed with the prints from Mass Portal, that's a delta too. They obviously wouldn't post a picture of a bad print, but I can't see any accidental mistakes or flaws in these prints.

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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby KAS » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:56 am

yea, Those do look good.

Spec wise, nothing out of the ordinary. They don't list in detail the mechanical side, but I'm sure that can be found.

This is a good sign --> Repetier-Firmware printer control software


http://massportal.com/en/products/pharaohed/specs

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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby drunkenmugsy » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:14 pm

I am printing one too just for the hell of it. I am seeing pretty much 100% infill though. My settings are 60% concentric, Matterslice/control.

ABS 217 Bed 80. Speed is between 20-25mm/s and 30mm/s for infill.

This actually turned out pretty good on mine. You can see some of the banding on the middle but not much on the other sections. I tried to get it to show in the light reflect but this was a bad as it got. I am still in the 'print it slow' stage. Yes slow does work... Its just well, slow. 2hrs 50mins to print.

This is actually one of the best prints I have done on my printer.
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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby KAS » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:28 pm

drunkenmugsy wrote:I am printing one too just for the hell of it. I am seeing pretty much 100% infill though. My settings are 60% concentric, Matterslice/control.


I had better luck in MatterControl using Decimal values over percentage. .60 versus 60%


Edit, sorry was at work and couldn't see the image. That's weird how MC shows it solid but it's printing with gaps.
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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby JFettig » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:42 pm

I just looked at some prints done by a Fortus, it has NASTY vertical banding, one of the parts I kinda wonder if its designed in, its wavy with the pitch of about 1/4" and amplitude about .020" Another print that is going has ripple effects after lettering like I get when I print over 100mm/s

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Re: Vertical Banding Revisited

Postby bot » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:53 pm

Jesus Christ, I need one of these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO_RaxDHxyU
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