Can someone tell me how to correct this print

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deadpool66
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Can someone tell me how to correct this print

Post by deadpool66 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:05 pm

Gaps around buttons tried adjusting overlap no dice seems to make no difference. Just upgraded to e3d v6 and 300mm carbon fiber arms

Image

Im using simplify 3d

current settings
top layer 4
bottom layers 4
outer shells 2
210 nozzel temp using hatchbox blue
100% infill
Nozzel Diam 4.0
extrusion multiplier 0.95
extrusion width .50
retraction distance 1.50
retraction vertical lift 0.30
retraction speed 1800.0
coasting distance 1.00
layer heights between 1500 and 2000 make no difference
printing speeds I've tried 1600.00 all the way to 3000.00 for printing speeds with little to no difference.

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mhackney
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Re: Can someone tell me how to correct this print

Post by mhackney » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:30 pm

Did you get a .5 nozzle with your E3D V6? If not, the stock nozzle is .4mm NOT .5mm. Change your slicer settings for .4mm extrusion width.

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deadpool66
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Re: Can someone tell me how to correct this print

Post by deadpool66 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:32 pm

i did switch the nozzle to .40 as soon as I replaced it

I tried adjusting the widths to no avail tried 40 .48 .50

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Re: Can someone tell me how to correct this print

Post by IMBoring25 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:11 pm

What is leading you to have the 0.95 extrusion multiplier? That's just a fudge-factor that will tell it to do all its calculations and then spit out 95% of the calculated plastic, which will cause this problem, along with changing other things.

Have you calibrated your extruder drive by disconnecting the Bowden tube at the extruder drive, marking a spot on the filament coming out of it, commanding 100mm of extrusion, and measuring how much filament actually extruded?

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Re: Can someone tell me how to correct this print

Post by mhackney » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:19 pm

IMBoring25 +1 - that is what I was going to say next. I thought the nozzle size was low hanging fruit. But S3D uses that as a fudge factor. Better to get things calibrated accurately to begin with. I've never understood how this fudge factor actually works and I have spent a fair amount of time investigating it.

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Re: Can someone tell me how to correct this print

Post by mhackney » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:21 pm

It's difficult to tell from the photo but the first layer might be a little off. As much as it pains me to make an S3D suggestion - in S3D make sure you are printing the first layer the same thickness as the rest and not using the 1st layer Height or Width %s.

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deadpool66
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Re: Can someone tell me how to correct this print

Post by deadpool66 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:23 pm

The extrusion multiplier is set to 95% by default what should it be set to 100%?

Maybe Ill give cura or kiss a shot and see if that fixes it. I would very much like the printer to be as accurate as possible its been a pain but Im not going to give up.

Ill give the filament measurement a shot to.

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Re: Can someone tell me how to correct this print

Post by nebbian » Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:42 pm

The first layer extrusion width _should_ be higher than your nozzle diameter. This is what leads to good bed adhesion. Even when printing in subsequent layers, it's a good idea to have your extrusion width higher than the nozzle diameter to account for die swell -- it gives you better layer adhesion. For a 0.4mm nozzle I usually have my first layer at 0.6mm, and subsequent layers at 0.5mm.

That said, I've solved similar issues by lowering the first layer acceleration to 100, this really slows down the print head when changing direction, which gives the plastic time to adhere properly to the bed without pulling itself away from the perimeter. Careful that your slicer is sending correct acceleration commands as well -- slic3r sends M204 instead of M201 which Repetier ignores.

https://github.com/prusa3d/Slic3r/issues/106

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Re: Can someone tell me how to correct this print

Post by Polygonhell » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:22 pm

Those sorts of gaps can also be the result of minor backlash, give the platform a wiggle and see how solid it feels when the steppers are engaged, if doesn't feel solid, you'll have to track down why, belts are a good place to start.

It can also be printing the first layer too fast if the adhesion is a little weak, plastic will tend to undercut corners.

\Do you see the same gaps on the top surface, or is it only on the first layer?

Also from a quality standpoint, you better off printing the 80 or 90% infill if you want "solid parts"

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Re: Can someone tell me how to correct this print

Post by mhackney » Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:54 am

I *never* print with a wider first layer extrusion width. That is a band aid and is completely unnecessary. If I printed the wihte parts on this fly fishing reel with a wider first layer it would look like garbage. The open mesh face you see was the first layer. I encourage you to click on the photo to see the zoomed in high resolution image. This is why I get paid the big bucks :)
IMG_4356.jpg

IMG_4357 769x769.jpg

I'll fill you in on my secrets for perfect first layers:

  • polish the tip of your nozzle
  • use the new sock if you have an E3D V6 hotend, they give spectacular results
  • NAIL your Z height setting - if you move to Z=0.20 your nozzle tip should be at 0.20mm. Read my posts in my signature on how to do this with the single layer test print
  • make sure your machine is well calibrated
  • print on PEI that has been lightly sanded with 600 grit sandpaper
  • ADVANCED TIP: use a little "clean" spit when you sand. There is something in spit that really helps adhesion. And yes, I am working to isolate it. Let's just say it has to do with sugar. A teaspoon of table sugar in 1/2 cup water will give similar results. If you use this tip, do not clean the PEI after sanding, leave the fine residue on the bed. This also fills in scratches and dents!
  • clean PEI with isoPropyl alcohol (unless using advanced tip) and then DON'T TOUCH IT again
  • double sneaky tip: print the first layer at 65°C and then turn down to 55°C for the 2nd layers
  • unless you have a special need and know what you are doing, explicitly set layer width to the nozzle diameter and layer height to no more than 50% of nozzle diameter.
  • for tricky first layers, print no faster than 15mm/s, for normal geometries, no faster than 25mm/s
If you want to account for die swell, reduce the extrusion width. But in practice, KISS and Cura are designed to take die swell into account. I can't speak for the slicer that must not be named. I suspect it does not given the confusion there is around it's default settings. If you want to be sure, nail all the things in my list, print a single line, let it cool then peal it off and measure it. Measurements tell the real story.

I agree with Polygonhell, this could be a minor backlash issue. In addition to "sloppiness", tight joints can cause similar issues.

Sublime Layers - my blog on Musings and Experiments in 3D Printing Technology and Art

Start Here:
A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints

Strategies for Resolving Print Artifacts

The Eclectic Angler

deadpool66
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Re: Can someone tell me how to correct this print

Post by deadpool66 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:02 am

Watching my print and I noticed a slight click on the z axis. Noticed the bearing covers look torn up in spots.

Maybe part of the issue?

deadpool66
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Re: Can someone tell me how to correct this print

Post by deadpool66 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:43 pm

What would be the best way to tighten up the belts the gaps have gotten wider since I upgraded to trick trucks.

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Re: Can someone tell me how to correct this print

Post by gchristopher » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:43 am

Joining late. Has the printer geometry changed with the new trucks? I know that when I switched from the old V2 cheapskates to the new injection-molded ones, that changed my horizontal radius.

How are things looking for basic calibration prints? I've tried using printed screw-based belt tensioners, which helped some, but my problems with gaps meeting were more in software than in mechanical issues.

deadpool66
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Re: Can someone tell me how to correct this print

Post by deadpool66 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:50 am

I ran the alternate calibration routine to set horizontal radius took about 40 runs before it was close 145.33 Radius if anyone else is using the 300 mm carbon fiber arms. When I added the trucks I ran the routine again and it was still good all points dragging on a 009 feeler gauge.

It seems like I'm getting some tilt as the extruder will be low when traveling down and high when traveling up.

Having bought my machine used I did not realize that there is a tensioner on the towers for the belts and none were actually adjusted. I tightened them up but didn't have time to run a test print.

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Re: Can someone tell me how to correct this print

Post by djarmag » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:03 pm

300mm carbon fiber arms may not be 300mm exactly unless that was written on the sticker they attached on the bag. Measure your center to center points on your CF arms and update your rod length. My arms were 300.44. +2 on the Extrusion width needs to match nozzle size and multiplier set to 1. It also looks like you might have to tweak your outline overlap so your nozzle prints a bit into the perimeter, set that to 30% to 50%, too much overlap causes a slight backup and makes your first layer a bit bumpy. Try using a different slicer and see if results are similar, that will let you know it could be more hardware than software.

deadpool66
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Re: Can someone tell me how to correct this print

Post by deadpool66 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:33 pm

Well on the bag it did say 300.15 rod length which is what I plugged into the eeprom setting. I'm going to hit it hard when I get home.

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Re: Can someone tell me how to correct this print

Post by deadpool66 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:19 am

After nailing the z height I was able to get the gaps to fill in using a circle calibration print prints out perfectly. Then I tried a large print surface and I'm getting lift between y and z and x and z.

I've been reading about alpha rotation but it gives me a headache lol. Any further suggestions guys?

I appreciate all the feedback.

deadpool66
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Re: Can someone tell me how to correct this print

Post by deadpool66 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:17 am

Adjusted my alpha rotation 1 degree from 330 to 229 and it worked extrusion remains tight to the bed between towers.

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