I could use some purchase advice/help.

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Edwii
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I could use some purchase advice/help.

Post by Edwii » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:13 pm

I'm interested in the Rostock Max V3.
I have a few questions, as this would be my first 3d printer.

1. The raspberry Pi option
What does it do/ what functionality would I gain?
The $50 "add Raspi" option when ordering, is that much different than the $70 Raspi in the parts section? What's the difference?

2. I've heard in the case of some printers/filaments/configurations, it's common to enclose the printer to keep the heat in? Is that accurate?
Would enclosing the the V3 make a difference in prints?

3. I've heard a lot of caution when it comes to getting a delta as a first printer. My research has lead me to believe that is true most of the time, but the V3 seems fairly noob friendly?
I'm pretty capable when it comes to building/fixing most things, so I don't feel too intimidated by the V3 delta, but I thought I would double check if there are any "speed bumps" that I should be aware of, if I were to invest in one?

4.(bonus) What looks better, the white or the black?

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Re: I could use some purchase advice/help.

Post by Qdeathstar » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:49 pm

1: You can do better on amazon visavi the raspberry pi.... it's also not a necessary upgrade and maybe i'd spend my money elsewhere. For example, duet electronics from the start is a good upgrade to do from the start. I found the hotend on the v2 to be more than adequate, and my assumption would be the same for the v3.

2: Enclosing the printer mainly makes a difference for ABS plastic. If you plan on printing mainly pla, you don't need to enclose it. But, i've got mine enclosed and imo, it makes the printer look neater.

3: The good news about buying a seemecnc machine is that there is a community to help. No 3D printer is perfect (even the 3000 dollar ones) so when issues come up, there are plenty of people to help :D. The V3 is a lot easier to assemble.

4: Well, the black v3 and the white v3 are actually the same size, but... when you look at them, the black one looks bigger.. so go with that one.

Edwii
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Re: I could use some purchase advice/help.

Post by Edwii » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:20 pm

Qdeathstar wrote:1: You can do better on amazon visavi the raspberry pi.... it's also not a necessary upgrade and maybe i'd spend my money elsewhere. For example, duet electronics from the start is a good upgrade to do from the start.


1. Ok, but still, what does a raspberry pi do with the rostock?
1.1 What are duet electronics, and what do they do?

2/3/4: gotcha.

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Re: I could use some purchase advice/help.

Post by Qdeathstar » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:04 pm

Duet electronics replaces the rambo. It is responsible for interpreting the gcode and translating that into moving the steppers, extruder, and hotend/bed temps. It also does everything that the raspberri pi would do running octoprint.


The pi allows you to control the printer wirelessly. The duet allows you to do that without the need for an external device.

Edwii
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Re: I could use some purchase advice/help.

Post by Edwii » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:42 pm

Qdeathstar wrote:Duet electronics replaces the rambo. It is responsible for interpreting the gcode and translating that into moving the steppers, extruder, and hotend/bed temps. It also does everything that the raspberri pi would do running octoprint.


The pi allows you to control the printer wirelessly. The duet allows you to do that without the need for an external device.


I see, so do you gain much else by using the Duet over the stock V3 + raspi? Cause the raspi is a good bit cheaper than the duet right?

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Re: I could use some purchase advice/help.

Post by Xenocrates » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:08 am

You gain higher precision, a faster controller, a quieter printer, more expansion capacity, more motor torque, and a set of firmware that is rapidly adding capacity and improvements, with excellent support for all sorts of interesting modifications and hardware.
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Re: I could use some purchase advice/help.

Post by Ravitch » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:29 am

I wouldn't start off with one. The Rostock Max V3 was my 5th printer and I'm still fighting with it. I also bought into the noob friendly, but it's not so much in my case. The community is great, and that helps, because official support sucks.

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Re: I could use some purchase advice/help.

Post by Polygonhell » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:16 pm

I wouldn't recommend trying to build with a different controller, unless you have a really good idea what you are doing.
Setting up the electronics and the firmware is the area most people seem to run into issues, while I agree the Duet is a better solution that the RAMBO, expecting a new builder to be able to just drop one in during the build is setting them up to fail.

If you don't feel comfortable trying to wire and configure a printer with basically no instructions and no support, I'd get it running with the included electronics first, then consider upgrading when you have a better understanding of what is involved.

The Raspberry PI runs software that acts like a connected PC would, and a Web interface for you to control the printer.
Honestly the web interface i's a really nice addition (though I haven't used the one on a PI), but it's certainly not "required".

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Re: I could use some purchase advice/help.

Post by geneb » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:27 pm

Build it stock FIRST, then tweak. :)

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Re: I could use some purchase advice/help.

Post by Edwii » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:54 pm

Polygonhell wrote:I wouldn't recommend trying to build with a different controller, unless you have a really good idea what you are doing.
Setting up the electronics and the firmware is the area most people seem to run into issues, while I agree the Duet is a better solution that the RAMBO, expecting a new builder to be able to just drop one in during the build is setting them up to fail.

If you don't feel comfortable trying to wire and configure a printer with basically no instructions and no support, I'd get it running with the included electronics first, then consider upgrading when you have a better understanding of what is involved.


I understand what you're saying. I've built a few computers, RC helicopters, restored a few motorcycles, wired a number of car stereos, and flashed/configured a few routers/cellphones over the years.
It can't be much different from that skill set right? What would be so hard starting with the duet over the rambo?

It really sounds like the Duet, is a pretty nice upgrade for the price... especially if I could order a V3 with out a Rambo... Do you think they'd let me?

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Re: I could use some purchase advice/help.

Post by Xenocrates » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:17 pm

I think you'd have to contact support, but considering they've done prebuilds with meter long rails and shipped it, If you're willing to pay, they'll be willing to play ball.

It's not a hugely different skill set, at least in the physical electrical connection side. And the Duet has really nice documentation. I think if you're confident and willing to accept that any support on the controller/configuration essentially is coming from the forums and the Duet folks (DC42 is really great about it usually) rather than from Seeme, it would work out OK in the end. However, be aware of the following caveats: The Duet does not currently support the usual LCD display, and would require a separate display and driver called a Paneldue (You can usually get them both from the same place, and it's a much nicer interface). It also doesn't support an external SD card without that, and that takes some configuration. It will also likely take some additional work on a mounting solution. If you prebuild with the Duet, you need to figure out at least a temporary method that doesn't involve printed parts.

Now, you'll have to do more research if you want to build with a Duet. I've got my own recommendations for starting modifications, since I don't completely share Geneb's stock then tweak attitude (Though I respect it, especially since he probably gets a bunch of PM's and bitches when someone's mods go sideways since he writes the manuals.) For one thing, I would personally add an SSR in the base to handle the heated bed and avoid running power up, then down again for it. But that's another 20$+ added to the cost of the machine, while other things like a fuse block with VFA or FA fuses wouldn't be needed with a rambo since it mostly has them onboard, but a Duet doesn't, and might need them if you plan on doing much modding to protect the controller.

You asked for recommendations and advice. You've gotten some from us. But it's no one's choice but your own, and most people have tried to be clear on what each option entails. (Personally, I like the black machine, suggest you paint the edges before assembly, enclosed my printer, and had a Delta as a first printer (Admittedly, I was trained on CNC mills/lathes first), and use a Duet rather than even considering a Raspi)
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Rostock Max V2, Duet .8.5, PT100 enabled E3D V6 and volcano, Raymond style enclosure
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Polygonhell
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Re: I could use some purchase advice/help.

Post by Polygonhell » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:20 am

Edwii wrote:
Polygonhell wrote:I wouldn't recommend trying to build with a different controller, unless you have a really good idea what you are doing.
Setting up the electronics and the firmware is the area most people seem to run into issues, while I agree the Duet is a better solution that the RAMBO, expecting a new builder to be able to just drop one in during the build is setting them up to fail.

If you don't feel comfortable trying to wire and configure a printer with basically no instructions and no support, I'd get it running with the included electronics first, then consider upgrading when you have a better understanding of what is involved.


I understand what you're saying. I've built a few computers, RC helicopters, restored a few motorcycles, wired a number of car stereos, and flashed/configured a few routers/cellphones over the years.
It can't be much different from that skill set right? What would be so hard starting with the duet over the rambo?

It really sounds like the Duet, is a pretty nice upgrade for the price... especially if I could order a V3 with out a Rambo... Do you think they'd let me?


It's not a radically different skill set, but debugging the entire system can be daunting, when something doesn't work it can be mechanical, electrical or software related, and it's not always obvious which. Throwing a different controller into the mix, just makes that more difficult.
Configuring the firmware on a new delta can be a fairly daunting task, and you can damage parts doing it, it's not "hard" if you know what you are trying to do and approach it methodically, but it's a damn site easier the second time.
There is an element to debugging and printer kit, it's just compounded by using an unsupported controller in the initial build.
Swapping it out later is easy enough and you'll know the rest of the printer works so your just playing with one variable.

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Re: I could use some purchase advice/help.

Post by enggmaug » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:12 am

Hey Edwii,

What I could say after everyone has given his point of view, is that whether you keep Rambo or take Duet from the begining depends on your skills to understand technical things. I understand you are new to 3D printing. So was I when I bought my RMax V1 in 2013. I started with a delta, and actually it is the only experience I have.
It took time to get it to work the way I wanted, but I'm sure V3 is easier.

for your questions :
1/I have RPi on my V1, it's nice but not mandatory. can be a later upgrade, very easily. To me the question is : do you have a computer dedicated to your printer ? If yes, no use for RPI, if no... then it's good thing to consider. (unless you go Duet)
2/enclosure... well I would say it has been one of my best mods. Not only for ABS, for PLA too, because my printer is in a place where I can't manage temperature.
3/I started with a Delta... don't know of anything else... It took me a lot of time to tweak it, but it was my choice... I moded the machine a lot, like many others here. It depends on what you want. Maybe the V3 won't need as many mods as the V1, but well, if you have no time for it, don't do it.

Duet/ I didn't upgrade the controller yet... I'm still hesitating. I don't have much time now, and my printer prints well without it...I'm still not sure how much better it can get. So I won't be the best advice here.
Just make sure you know of everything you need to change if you go that path. My advice would be Gene's : go stock first. BUT if you know you may upgrade later on, try to plan for an easy switch.

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Re: I could use some purchase advice/help.

Post by DeltaCon » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:57 am

I agree With Gene too. His documentation really get's you going. If you start changing things from the get go, you will have to google for how-too's endlessly, and end up with a lot of questions. It is better to have thorough understanding from what you are starting with, before you do mods or upgrades. My first 3d-printing experience I got from buying a secondhand Max V2. I went into endless cycles of questions right from the start. I would have been a lot quicker buying a new kit and built myself. But for me the challenge was in the experience itself so I don't mind.

I have no experience with RPi and octoprint. If you want to add it later, I think the duet (maybe one of the older versions) is a more sensible route. Buying a RPi kit from SeeMe gets you at least half way an older duet, financially. Once you have a Duet, there is really no need for a RPi anymore. Plus it has lots of other nice features! The RPi Kit does 70$, I bought a Duet 0.6 for 66 GB pounds. That is about the same value.
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Re: I could use some purchase advice/help.

Post by Edwii » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:07 pm

Thanks everyone for all the input, it's helped a lot.
I'm positive I'll be getting a delta in the near future, the V3 is one my top contenders, I was almost positive it was the right one for me, but I've found I need to do a bit more research before I make an investment.

Thanks again every one, very helpful.

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Re: I could use some purchase advice/help.

Post by djarmag » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:14 pm

Edwii wrote:Thanks everyone for all the input, it's helped a lot.
I'm positive I'll be getting a delta in the near future, the V3 is one my top contenders, I was almost positive it was the right one for me, but I've found I need to do a bit more research before I make an investment.

Thanks again every one, very helpful.



I'm a 3D printing noob. Period. This is my first full-size 3D Printer and I thought bit off more I could chew coming from a Micro 3D, but I repair electronics and found the instructions were adequate enough to figure out everything. Paying attention to detail and verifying those screw terminals are a must because I tugged on mine after tightening it down hard and they still came out easily. But after 16 hours of taking my time it was done. Took an extra day to figure out the wireless printing so in the meantime I just connected directly to Rambo via usb. I did the first calibration and I was amazed. Printed tons of models from Thingiverse, then found out that there was a SECOND calibration. After seeing those results I was sure I made the right decision. Coming to this forum and I am reading tons of great how to's, troubleshooting, files, etc from all the owners and providing their expertise. Such a great community and if you decide to get a V3 I'm sure you will enjoy it just as I am. :D

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