LCD Shut Down

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nflint
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LCD Shut Down

Post by nflint » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:50 pm

I just finished building the Rostock Max V2 and had started on the User Guide for calibration. Everything was working great. I was up to section 2.4 (page 29) to set the Z height and everything was working exactly like it was supposed to according the user manual. I was able to navigate using the knob to send everything home and start moving the z height down. I only got a couple of turns counterclockwise which I realized it wasn't working anymore. I then noticed that the LCD panel was completely off when it had just been working fine. When I try to control any of the axes (x, y, or z) from Matter Control I see a light on the RAMBo board light up every time I click the +/- buttons but nothing happens.

I have absolutely no idea what just happened. I pulled the LCD panel off the front of the machine and everything looks ok (that is, wires are still where they were, I don't see any "burns", etc.). Any help, suggestions, etc. you can offer to help me figure out why my printer just failed I would appreciate it!

Everything is standard with the build. I haven't made any changes at all.

I also turned the printer back on and "disconnected" in Matter Control. I clicked "Connect" and it's been a good minute with the computer still saying it is attempting to connect. For now I have the printer off. Please help!

Thanks!!!!

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Re: LCD Shut Down

Post by Mac The Knife » Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:16 am

There is a good chance you some wires on the hotend shorted out, and blew a fuse.
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joe
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Re: LCD Shut Down

Post by joe » Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:29 am

Agree. Most likely one of the little fuses.

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Re: LCD Shut Down

Post by nflint » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:37 am

Thanks! Seems odd that it would have blown at this point in the calibration process. I would have guessed that this would have happened on section 2.3 when I was doing the auto tune process.

So then I'm assuming that I need to pull the hotend off and re-check the wiring? Hopefully it's something simple as making sure there is enough Kapton tape covering everything.

On the fuses...any additional insight would be appreciated as I have very little experience with electronics. I see on the RAMBo board (http://reprap.org/wiki/Rambo_v1.3) that I have 3 fuses:
1) F2 Motors - 5A
2) F3 Logic, Heat, Fans - 5A
3) F4 Heat Bed - 15A

How can I tell if one of these fuses is blown and needs to be replaced? Assuming it would be either the F2 or F3 fuses. So I would just need to get a replacement fuse, pop the old one out, new one in, and double check wiring on the hotend? Is there anything else I should be checking?

Really appreciate the feedback!

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Re: LCD Shut Down

Post by Xenocrates » Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:57 am

It's most likely fuse F3. That one you'll need something to test it with. If you don't have a multimeter (they are seriously useful, BTW), you can use something line a bit of wire, a battery, and an LED. If, when connected to the battery through the fuse, it doesn't light, that fuse is potentially blown. You can't tell via visual inspection though.

You do want to check the wiring before putting the new fuse in, and you want some form of strain relief on the fan wires for part cooling fans. I suspect that there was some problem with the insulation between the pairs, or a tangle somewhere, and as the hotend moved, it pulled them into contact.
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Re: LCD Shut Down

Post by nflint » Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:10 am

Oh! Since I just had it built the fan wires are not connected so they are just hanging out near the hot end. I bet you are right...when I was moving the hot end the ends of those wires moved and caused the issue. I'll go ahead and get some extra fuses ordered (and maybe a multimeter as well! A good excuse to get a new "toy"!) and see if that solves the issue. Then I'll make sure those wires get held down (prob put some tape over the end as well) so this doesn't happen again.

Thanks!!!

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Re: LCD Shut Down

Post by joe » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:51 pm

Xenocrates wrote: you can use something line a bit of wire, a battery, and an LED.


You forgot to tell him to use a resistor with that led or he will blow that too. :D

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Re: LCD Shut Down

Post by Xenocrates » Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:51 pm

joe wrote:
Xenocrates wrote: you can use something line a bit of wire, a battery, and an LED.


You forgot to tell him to use a resistor with that led or he will blow that too. :D

It depends on a lot of things if that matters or not. I've gotten LED's to run straight off a AAA/AA, but mostly I deal with coin cells for that. For the most part, 1.5V's won't kill an LED anytime soon. Most common LED's that you might find around a house, like the one off the Onyx, are designed to deal with 2V's drop.
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joe
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Re: LCD Shut Down

Post by joe » Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:17 pm

Thanks for the lesson on all things led. I wish I was as smart as you. :cry:

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Re: LCD Shut Down

Post by Xenocrates » Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:41 am

joe wrote:Thanks for the lesson on all things led. I wish I was as smart as you. :cry:


Here's a hint: Wikipedia is your friend.

Seriously, I wanted to check if I was mis-remembering, so I looked it up.
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Re: LCD Shut Down

Post by Eric » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:06 am

You're so young. Many of us learned to change spark plugs before there was even an internet or books for dummies.

But yeah, if you're using a 9V battery, you'll want about 3-400 ohm resistor in the circuit to save the LED.

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Re: LCD Shut Down

Post by Nylocke » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:20 am

You know that that whole image is like an XKCD comic illustrating his point? It doesn't actually reflect on he learned about spark plugs, or if he even has. I'm not trying to stir anything up it just sounds like you're talking down to him IMO.

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Re: LCD Shut Down

Post by Eric » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:18 pm

I'm much better at deadpan delivery than talking down to people. I didn't even mention how useless my knowledge of condensors and points is on modern cars. At least most of them still have spark plugs.

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Re: LCD Shut Down

Post by Xenocrates » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:59 pm

Don't start on condensers. It seems every time they get mentioned, it ends up with someone bitching about Lucas electrical devices, and some discussion of the Smoke theory of electrical devices, followed by a terrible joke about Dark Emitting Diodes.

That being said, I am young enough to not remember a time where the internet didn't exist, and Wikipedia started being very useful and reasonably well populated with factoids well before I had to do more than clumsily write my name on a piece of paper. However, in an amusing counterpoint, I learned about sparkplug removal and regapping before I was allowed to use the internet (Somehow, early escapades accidentally uninstalling OS X without admin privileges made my parents loath to allow me internet access, or computer time in general)
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Re: LCD Shut Down

Post by Mac The Knife » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:30 pm

Lucas was the original manufacturer of the intermittent windshield wiper,,,, before it was invented.
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Re: LCD Shut Down

Post by Qdeathstar » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:17 pm

out of curiosity, why aren't polyfuses an option? Do they blow too slowly?

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Re: LCD Shut Down

Post by Xenocrates » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:45 pm

Qdeathstar wrote:out of curiosity, why aren't polyfuses an option? Do they blow too slowly?


I'm going to go with board size/space, although time to trip would also be a thing. The maximum time to trip is about 3X a fast acting fuse of the type they use, at the same size. I think that given what the power supply can put out, that it would either really crisp the board, or trip the polyfuse real fast. I'm using polyfuses on my Duet, but haven't had any shorts with them, and am not about to test it.
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Re: LCD Shut Down

Post by Eric » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:22 am

Polyfuses do have characteristics different from fuses, aside from the obvious reset feature. They tend to react more like slo-blow fuses than fast-blow ones. They "blow" by transitioning from a low resistance device to a high resistance device, which means they don't actually break the circuit when they "trip", but instead limit the current in the circuit. Some leakage current continues to flow. Even in their normal state they have a resistance thats higher than a fuse, which translates to a slight voltage drop. They're more sensitive to environmental temperature, which may mean derating them in enclosed spaces without forced ventilation.

Personally, I'm fine with traditional fuses in most cases. It's just unfortunate they chose the nano-fuse form factor, since they're order-only items. I notice that fault was corrected on the mini-rambo, which only uses automotive type fuses, which are always available locally.

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Re: LCD Shut Down

Post by nflint » Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:11 pm

Good news!!! I'm back up and running - so must have just been those lose wires for the fans that caused the issue. I replaced the two small fuses F2 and F3 and we are back up. So now on to calibration so I can start printing. Thanks everyone for the help!

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Re: LCD Shut Down

Post by nflint » Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:38 pm

So one of the reasons I pulled the trigger on the RostockMax was because I heard great things about the community. And you didn't fail me at all! Everything is up and running and I now have successfully printed the PEEK fan shroud!!! Many thanks to all of you. I look forward to continuing to learn, and where I can, contributing to this community. Thanks again!!!

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Re: LCD Shut Down

Post by drwho » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:07 pm

Great thread. I'm pretty sure this is what we're currently dealing with. When working with the hot end everything just shut off or so it seemed. Then we noticed the power supply fan was still on. When we connect with the computer it's not showing a bed at all. It loads as 1 command waiting and won't home and isn't being responsive to anything. Hopefully it's just a fuse...fingers crossed.

Update: It was a blown 5AIE fuse. This was caused by the hot end wires touching. The coating on the heater cartridge casing had worn down over time and needed to be redone.

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