LCD reset when heating hot end

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skyjuice
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LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby skyjuice » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:46 pm

I have searched the forums and have not found the answer. The problem I am having ,after a few months of very successful printing, is when I go to heat up my hot end, the board resets itself. It has to be a short of some kind, but I have checked EVERYTHING and have not found a hair out of place. The bed heats just fine, but when I go to heat the hot end or turn on the fans for that matter, it just resets/restarts. My solders appear to be ok and are all reading the correct voltages. Power supply??? Have any of you had this happen? If so, what was your fix? Thanks in advance!

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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby Xenocrates » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:19 pm

I had a problem that superficially looked like it, where it would cut out every so often while trying to warm to printing temps. Turned out to be a bum reset switch, so we ripped it off the rambo with side angle cutters, then bought a proper soldering station so we could desolder what was left. If it's just the fans/hotend turning on that does it, rather than it happening semi-randomly, then it's likely not that. One thing I would do is to make sure that the hotend/fan wiring is well away from the other wires. To see if it's the power supply, I would first check the hotend resistance (If it's very low, you have a short which may trigger overcurrent protection before the fuse blows), then warm it up with the bed off. If it trips with the bed off hotend on, but not hotend off bed on, it is something in the board or wiring, instead of the power supply.
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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby skyjuice » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:39 pm

Xenocrates wrote:I had a problem that superficially looked like it, where it would cut out every so often while trying to warm to printing temps. Turned out to be a bum reset switch, so we ripped it off the rambo with side angle cutters, then bought a proper soldering station so we could desolder what was left. If it's just the fans/hotend turning on that does it, rather than it happening semi-randomly, then it's likely not that. One thing I would do is to make sure that the hotend/fan wiring is well away from the other wires. To see if it's the power supply, I would first check the hotend resistance (If it's very low, you have a short which may trigger overcurrent protection before the fuse blows), then warm it up with the bed off. If it trips with the bed off hotend on, but not hotend off bed on, it is something in the board or wiring, instead of the power supply.


It trips when the hot end is turned on no matter if the bed is already on or not. I will follow your troubleshoot tips and get back to you. And thank-you for the detailed response! Made my night :-)

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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby skyjuice » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:40 pm

Since the only "cash" I have is in the form of amazon store credit and seemecnc doesn't accept amazon payments any longer, is there another hot end that works well with the V3?

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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby geneb » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:57 am

How many times are you going to ask the same question today?

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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby skyjuice » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:27 pm

As many times as it takes to get an answer. Got a problem with that? Do me a favor and don't comment on my questions anymore as all you have to say is rude shit.

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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby Xenocrates » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:05 pm

Sky, usually people will come and answer a question when it's posed in a relatively short time. Asking it repeatedly in different threads makes it less likely for people to respond constructively, as they will think they saw it a while ago and it must have been answered already (Or that it's rude to cross-post an issue). It also dilutes discussion, as any responses are going to be scattered around.

However, in answer to the original question, Yes, there are hotends which work with the V3 on Amazon. Chief among them would be the E3D V6. However, if you believe it's the hotend at fault, what I would do is remove the I2C wiring, as well as the wiring that goes to PS-ON, and try it then. If that still isn't working, You can directly splice the wires from the hotend for the thermistor and heater wiring into the wiring loom and remove the HE280 PCB entirely for troubleshooting. If it still resets, then it's not a problem with the hotend, but instead with the RAMBO, and SeemeCNC/Ultimachine are responsible for repair/troubleshooting on that. I would also contact SeemeCNC support, as if it is the HE280 PCB, they may replace it due to the flaw, and if they don't, will still likely be interested in knowing how it failed.
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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby skyjuice » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:19 pm

Thanks Xeno. Cross posted as I was in panic mode trying to get an order out and needed a part quickly. I just replaced the he280 in its entirety with a brand new, pre-assembled unit from seemecnc and it still resets when I turn the heat/fan on. Il submit a ticket for this to seeme and hope for the best. I will definitely post an update once I find a solution to the problem.

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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby geneb » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:24 am

On the face of it, I'd suspect power sag - does it happen when only heating the hot end and not the bed, or only when heating the hot end and the bed?

Also, on a bad-decision scale from "Hey y'all, watch this!" to "Let's start a land war in Asia!", cussing at a moderator in public is essentially you planning troop deployments. :)

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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby skyjuice » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:00 pm

geneb wrote:On the face of it, I'd suspect power sag - does it happen when only heating the hot end and not the bed, or only when heating the hot end and the bed?

Also, on a bad-decision scale from "Hey y'all, watch this!" to "Let's start a land war in Asia!", cussing at a moderator in public is essentially you planning troop deployments. :)

g.


I couldn't care less if you are a moderator! Ban me if you want. You never have anything nice to say and I'm calling you on it. Peace! Also, what would you know about war? I was deployed 3 times to the gulf.

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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby Xenocrates » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:10 pm

geneb wrote:On the face of it, I'd suspect power sag - does it happen when only heating the hot end and not the bed, or only when heating the hot end and the bed?


g.


Geneb, we've already gone over the bed+ hotend or just hotend thing.
It is a hotend issue, as apparently the bed doesn't matter. I might try watching the voltage with a multimeter at this point. I might also try pulling the hotend fuse (or just disconnecting it completely), and then turning it on in (This will eventually make it say heater decoupled, but if it resets instantly, will tell you it's the RAMBO at issue, rather than the hotend. I don't think there are a lot of test points you could use, nor the data to readily run you through using them remotely sky.

I would also watch the status and power LED's on the board, near the USB port. If the upper one is irregular while the lower one is consistently lit, then it is likely a board issue more than a power one. I would also try connecting via mattercontrol, to see if it may be a problem solely with the LCD interface,

As usual, best of luck with it all.
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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby skyjuice » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:36 pm

Xenocrates wrote:
geneb wrote:On the face of it, I'd suspect power sag - does it happen when only heating the hot end and not the bed, or only when heating the hot end and the bed?


g.


Geneb, we've already gone over the bed+ hotend or just hotend thing.
It is a hotend issue, as apparently the bed doesn't matter. I might try watching the voltage with a multimeter at this point. I might also try pulling the hotend fuse (or just disconnecting it completely), and then turning it on in (This will eventually make it say heater decoupled, but if it resets instantly, will tell you it's the RAMBO at issue, rather than the hotend. I don't think there are a lot of test points you could use, nor the data to readily run you through using them remotely sky.

I would also watch the status and power LED's on the board, near the USB port. If the upper one is irregular while the lower one is consistently lit, then it is likely a board issue more than a power one. I would also try connecting via mattercontrol, to see if it may be a problem solely with the LCD interface,

As usual, best of luck with it all.


Thanks Xenocrates! Yes, the leds by the USB turn on. Bottom light is green, but the one above it blinks irregular yellow. I'm thinking I will have to replace the board too. Thanks for the input, I appreciate it!

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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby Juicy » Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:04 am

Skyjuice,

I think I am having similar problems to you! In case you didn't know, you can email MatterHackers support for an additional opinion. To be fair SeeMe's support has been more helpful but less responsive (for every SeeMe support response I get 3 responses from M.H.).
I began assembling this printer in early January. It got delayed when my kit was missing key components and then somehow failed to get missing screws shipped 2 times. Once assembled (mid Jan) my very first print (eyes logo) started no problem. After about 30 minutes, the layers/cross hatching stopped sticking and after about 1 hour I canceled the print. The issue appeared to be temperature related. I had set my hotend to 205C and the temperature reported would stay around 190. I then set it to 215 and returned 200 (First thought is Thermistor). I tested the Heated bed and it reached 70C with no problems. I went back to trying to diagnose the printer (checking/reconnecting all connections and wiring). Soon after, my printer reported "def" temperatures and a "Heater decoupled" error on the bottom line of the LCD. Now I check the connection into the hot end and make sure all wires are in the correct place and connection is seated properly. This does not work either but I notice that at some point in phase 2 of this diagnosing process the bed stops heating too.
MatterHackers support says the issue is wirig related. I use a multimeter to check the thermal safety fuse and it seems okay.
SeeMeCNC support tell me to check my LCD temperatures and see which one (noz vs. bed) jumps to subzero or 350+ temperatures just before def or decoupled message. My hot end is something like -30 just before so I purchase 2 thermistors and wait to replace the hot end.

Today, I was finally able to replace the thermistor. I also resoldered all the connections just to be 100% sure. I turn the V3 on, connect, home the printer, and preheat the hot end. It begins to climb so i assume it works. I try to test print the calibration box; I set my temperatures to 200 and 65 and notice my LCD, bed LED, and Hotend LEDs pulsing. My next hypothesis is a short in the wiring (hint: I've checked too many times as specific as possible but will check again anyways) or a bad board/software issue in my case. I have only tested via USB 3.0 or 3.1. I dont know what to do anymore and dont have the time or patience to troubleshoot this daily. I was considering purchasing the preassembled he280 but after reading your situation it seems that is a waste. It's pretty depressing to see this thing sitting in the corner... I was so excited to get this printer and could not be more let down. :(


skyjuice wrote:
Xenocrates wrote:
geneb wrote:On the face of it, I'd suspect power sag - does it happen when only heating the hot end and not the bed, or only when heating the hot end and the bed?


g.


Geneb, we've already gone over the bed+ hotend or just hotend thing.
It is a hotend issue, as apparently the bed doesn't matter. I might try watching the voltage with a multimeter at this point. I might also try pulling the hotend fuse (or just disconnecting it completely), and then turning it on in (This will eventually make it say heater decoupled, but if it resets instantly, will tell you it's the RAMBO at issue, rather than the hotend. I don't think there are a lot of test points you could use, nor the data to readily run you through using them remotely sky.

I would also watch the status and power LED's on the board, near the USB port. If the upper one is irregular while the lower one is consistently lit, then it is likely a board issue more than a power one. I would also try connecting via mattercontrol, to see if it may be a problem solely with the LCD interface,

As usual, best of luck with it all.


Thanks Xenocrates! Yes, the leds by the USB turn on. Bottom light is green, but the one above it blinks irregular yellow. I'm thinking I will have to replace the board too. Thanks for the input, I appreciate it!

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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby Xenocrates » Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:31 pm

Juicy wrote:Skyjuice,

I think I am having similar problems to you! In case you didn't know, you can email MatterHackers support for an additional opinion. To be fair SeeMe's support has been more helpful but less responsive (for every SeeMe support response I get 3 responses from M.H.).
I began assembling this printer in early January. It got delayed when my kit was missing key components and then somehow failed to get missing screws shipped 2 times. Once assembled (mid Jan) my very first print (eyes logo) started no problem. After about 30 minutes, the layers/cross hatching stopped sticking and after about 1 hour I canceled the print. The issue appeared to be temperature related. I had set my hotend to 205C and the temperature reported would stay around 190. I then set it to 215 and returned 200 (First thought is Thermistor). I tested the Heated bed and it reached 70C with no problems. I went back to trying to diagnose the printer (checking/reconnecting all connections and wiring). Soon after, my printer reported "def" temperatures and a "Heater decoupled" error on the bottom line of the LCD. Now I check the connection into the hot end and make sure all wires are in the correct place and connection is seated properly. This does not work either but I notice that at some point in phase 2 of this diagnosing process the bed stops heating too.
MatterHackers support says the issue is wirig related. I use a multimeter to check the thermal safety fuse and it seems okay.
SeeMeCNC support tell me to check my LCD temperatures and see which one (noz vs. bed) jumps to subzero or 350+ temperatures just before def or decoupled message. My hot end is something like -30 just before so I purchase 2 thermistors and wait to replace the hot end.

Today, I was finally able to replace the thermistor. I also resoldered all the connections just to be 100% sure. I turn the V3 on, connect, home the printer, and preheat the hot end. It begins to climb so i assume it works. I try to test print the calibration box; I set my temperatures to 200 and 65 and notice my LCD, bed LED, and Hotend LEDs pulsing. My next hypothesis is a short in the wiring (hint: I've checked too many times as specific as possible but will check again anyways) or a bad board/software issue in my case. I have only tested via USB 3.0 or 3.1. I dont know what to do anymore and dont have the time or patience to troubleshoot this daily. I was considering purchasing the preassembled he280 but after reading your situation it seems that is a waste. It's pretty depressing to see this thing sitting in the corner... I was so excited to get this printer and could not be more let down. :(



Just as a hint, top-posting (IE, putting your text above the quote you're replying to), is usually discouraged for some reason (I think it's consistency and aesthetics).

Now, for actually deal with the real issues you're having. I suspect that if you're actually having the issues I'm seeing, I suggest two things. First use your multimeter to check the power supply voltage going into the Rambo. It should be ~12-12.5V. If it fluctuates as you're heating, or just randomly, it is a power supply issue, and thus you'll need to contact Seeme for a replacement. If that part is good, and your main issue is that the heater decouples and doesn't actually reach the correct temperature, you'll need to adjust your PID loop, primarly the I term to reduce the offset from set temperature, after ensuring your P term is sufficient to reach the temp, which may require the PID_DRIVE_MAX parameter adjusted.

Note that on the Repetier firmware, a single fault such as heater decoupled will cause all heating to stop. This is by design and reduces the hazards of these faults. It also sounds like you're getting an intermittent open (The opposite of a short, IE, no connection), on the thermistor circuit. However, if you fix the temp issues, that may help you. You likely will also need a "Whip Clip" which is a printed fixture to hold the 8-pin plug on the HE280 found Here
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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby skyjuice » Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:19 pm

You Xeno! Can you recommend a cheap replacement board? Found the RAMBO on Amazon for $180 and the mini for $140. Is the mini about the same thing?

Juicy, I had that issue and it was a loose connection in the whip connector. Have you looked there?

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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby Xenocrates » Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:59 pm

Sky, if you're still stuck with Amazon as your main reserve of cash, you'd be best served with Rambo, but the Mini rambo will do almost everything the Rambo does, however, I am not sure on how much of the pinout is identical. I do know it doesn't properly support dual extrusion. As far as I know, all the other boards will take significant messing about in the firmware to support the HE280 probe, due to the rather odd pinouts.

If you're looking for other options, and don't mind needing an adapter or different probe than the HE280 (MHackney has adapter firmware for a relatively cheap micro for example), You have options like the Duet family, with the .6.0 being mostly like the Mini-Rambo, at 66 pounds (~85 dollars US), the .8.5 being a major improvement over the Rambo, at 130$ US, and the Wifi being the latest and greatest board available at $170. However, these would all either need the Paneldue display interface (Which is a touchscreen based one, ranging from 85$ to 95$ depending on the screen size), or to use only the (Quite good) web interface. As a note, the Duet wifi beyond it's obvious virtues in having better stepper drivers and a more mature design, also can make use of the SD card socket on the paneldue, while the others require more work to make it function properly.

There's also Smoothieware based boards, which should work OK with the HE280 probe adapter, but I'm much less familiar with their configuration and feature set. All I know is to avoid the MKSbase line of boards based on developer behavior rather than technical merit.

Now, forgive me if you find this a bit rude, but while I personally would make a Duet swap at a point like this, I VERY heavily suggest that you not, as it can be difficult to figure out, and considering how long you've had the printer, and your spate of difficulties with it. Frustration or inattention to detail can kill a Duet much more easily than a Rambo (I must admit, I ended up killing one with a short on the fan pins, which the Duet wifi has improved on somewhat). If you're looking for a lower price, one of Mhackney's Rambos that he's recently put up for sale on the forums might well be a good idea, or you might try contacting Ultimachine itself rather than SeemeCNC about repairing your Rambo (Which admittedly leaves your printer inoperable longer unless they swap you a different refurbished board for yours and some cash).
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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby skyjuice » Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:42 pm

NOT rude at all!!! I'll reach out to Ultimachine and see what they can do/recommend. I'm considering that mini rambo for the $85. Will my current wiring arrangement fit the mini the way it does the stock Rambo board on the V3? Hope I worded that right :-) You answered so many questions and took a lot of time to help and I am truly grateful! Thank-you!

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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby Xenocrates » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:47 pm

It won't entirely fit. For instance, the I2C connector on the Rambo is omitted on the mini-Rambo, however the pins are exposed, and this is used in the ERIS. I would suggest if you do use the mini-rambo, I suggest you use the pin assignments from the eris to cross-check yours as you switch. You'll need to make sure your wiring on that vaguely matches what's shown in this thread for the I2C to work properly and thus for probing to work. Another thing will be mounting the mini rambo, which will need to have the board supports and fan moved to accomodate the smaller size (And because it's smaller, it needs the cooling fan even more as the same heat is distributed over less board area)
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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby skyjuice » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:22 pm

Well, it looks like I won't be getting the mini :-) I'll just go with the stock version of the RAMBo that came with it to save time and so I can resume my work making prototypes. I love 3d printing and all, but I got into it to make prototypes and just need to have the machine working. I am learning to love the art of 3d printing and it is growing on me though! Thank-you for your time and I greatly appreciate it! Next time I swing down your way, I'll honk my horn haha

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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby skyjuice » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:02 pm

Got a new rambo and installed it, flashed the newest firmware and fired her right up. Immediately the bed temp goes Def to -50, no was at 20. Then the lcd just goes black. I snapped a pic of the board wiring before I replaced it and reinstalled it according to my picture and the other online at seeme. The fan under the rambo does not turn on. What might I be dealing with? Also, if I were to put it up for sale, what would be a ball park estimate as to its fetch value? TONS OF PARTS!

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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby Dale Eason » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:59 am

Assuming the power supply still works then most likely you blew a fuse probably because there is a short somewhere. Use an ohm meter to check all the fuses. Use a volt meter to check that you have 12 volts of power to the input power connection.

If you find that a fuse is blown then try to figure out why it blew before replacing it.

Dale

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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby skyjuice » Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:23 pm

Thanks Cale. I tested the power input and it checks out fine. I replace all the fuses just to see if maybe it would show some sign of life, but still nothing. I'm baffled at this point and considering selling it if I can't fix it.

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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby Dale Eason » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:02 pm

I'm assuming you may not know what all the fuses look like. Do you know there are tiny rectangular fuses on the Board. They are labeled with numbers that start with F. F2 being one of the most important ones. Don't just replace them with others because they may just blow again. Measure them with an ohm meter. So now go back and measure them and see if any are blown. There must be some otherwise the fan would turn. My bet is F2 is Blown.

IF you have the power connected up correctly and F2 is good the Fan for the Rambo will run. I think that is just a direct connection from fan to fused power.

I doubt anyone would give you anything for a Rambo that you can't make work.

Dale

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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby skyjuice » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:09 pm

The fan for the rambo does turn on. I am pretty familiar with this board at this point and have many of the little fuses on hand (bought a roll of them) just in case :-) I'll check some more around the board with the ohm meter. Thanks.

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Re: LCD reset when heating hot end

Postby skyjuice » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:06 pm

Got the board to work. Turned out to be a bad solder from the factory. I just separated the two posts and voila. Now I need to figure out why temps are reading DEF. Everything is brand new, so it has to be a connection of sorts. Thermistors were just replaced.....


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