Nylon

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KAS
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Nylon

Post by KAS » Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:02 pm

Looking for Nylon printing experiences and tips. I have a potential 3Dhubs customer looking for nylon work, specifically black nylon (although dye is an option).

I have the typical blue trimmer nylon although I'm not sure if the characteristics are the same as Taulman's. Surface adhesion seems to be an issue.

I've tried:

PEI: no way, too slick
Kapton tape: lays okay then self detaches.
Blue painters tape: lays decent, somewhat easy to peel off. Need to perform a long print.
Glue stick: seems okay. Might be the best option out of the few tests.
clean glass: nope
aluminium: nope
Carbon fiber: like kapton, lays then comes off easy.
Epoxy over CF^: nope
Matte adhesive spray: does okay, kind of like the blue tape.


Any suggestions or tips would be awesome. Also, anyone print with black nylon?

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Re: Nylon

Post by Glacian22 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:43 pm

I've had decent results with gluestick on glass (as hot as you can get it, 100+c), but even then I have to use a very wide brim to keep things stuck down. And it's still basically impossible to print large things with high infill, at least without a heated chamber.

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Re: Nylon

Post by Jimustanguitar » Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:28 pm

Gluestick works well for me, too. I think Taulman's site says to apply PVA to your bed. I've got some, in filament form, but haven't goofed with it.

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Re: Nylon

Post by KAS » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:08 pm

Sounds like a good starting point. Thanks!

The company is designing a two piece wall-mounted tablet case. The base would be rigid and the top would be flexible to an extent.

I've ordered Taulman PCTPE and Nylon 320 to handle the flexible part (I hope). He's going to order a few test pieces first to determine the thickness needed for the flexibility desired.

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Re: Nylon

Post by JFettig » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:43 pm

Jimustanguitar wrote:Gluestick works well for me, too. I think Taulman's site says to apply PVA to your bed. I've got some, in filament form, but haven't goofed with it.


PVA glue, not filament :)

50% glue-all, 50% water.

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Re: Nylon

Post by bvandiepenbos » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:59 pm

Birch hobby plywood sanded smooth, no heat ?
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Re: Nylon

Post by Windshadow » Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:24 pm

JFettig wrote:
Jimustanguitar wrote:Gluestick works well for me, too. I think Taulman's site says to apply PVA to your bed. I've got some, in filament form, but haven't goofed with it.


PVA glue, not filament :)

50% glue-all, 50% water.

yep i think i had some yellow carpenters glue that was PVA

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Re: Nylon

Post by JFettig » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:27 am

Yes, when taulman says "pva" they specify:

PVA

(PVA is 50% water and 50% "Elmers Glue All")
http://www.taulman3d.com/910-features.html

Not sure if that will work for trimmer line but 910 prints quite nice on it

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Re: Nylon

Post by KAS » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:30 am

awesome, PVA is easy enough to use. Looks like Taulman did all the hard work with providing the base settings for their products.

http://www.taulman3d.com/best-print-settings.html

This blue weed whacker nylon seems a bit harder to dial in. Might as-well toss this aside and use nylon made for printing.


Then I just need to figure out the black issue.

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Re: Nylon

Post by cope413 » Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:56 pm

The blue trimmer line is AWESOME for printing. I printed well over 50 pounds of the stuff before there were nylon filaments available.

As with all nylons, you need to ensure it's thoroughly dry before you print with it.

55-65C with elmer's glue stick will work with most parts. You'll likely want to use a brim or a raft for parts larger than 100mm diameter.

255-265C for optimum interlayer adhesion.

Use a 0.6 or 0.8mm nozzle for insanely strong/durable parts
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Re: Nylon

Post by KAS » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:14 pm

I have an unusually large supply of desiccant I keep my filament in. The Taulman nylon came in today, I'll shove that in the drum for a week or so before I start testing it.

Also ordered a Garolite LE sheet that is suppose to be the PEI equivalent for nylons.


I'll have to mess with the blue stuff a little more for sure.

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Re: Nylon

Post by Eaglezsoar » Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:41 am

The plywood idea from Brian is a good idea. I have read in many places about using sanded plywood (cabinet grade) as a base for printing all
nylons. No heat needed. If you can get your hands on a small piece it would certainly be worth a try.

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Re: Nylon

Post by cope413 » Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:14 pm

Desiccant alone won't dry it out. It will keep it dry, but you'll need some heat to dry it out.

You can use a 40-60w incandescent light bulb inside a bucket, or throw it in an oven at 180-190F for 4-6 hours.
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Re: Nylon

Post by nebbian » Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:15 am

I tried printing some nylon last night on my PEI bed.

At 105 degrees bed and 240 nozzle, it stuck nicely. Until the second layer that is... Nylon looks to be a lot more fussy with regard to temperature than the other filaments I've tried.

I have some R/C modelling birch plywood, it's really thin, and will try printing on top of that this weekend.

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Re: Nylon

Post by enggmaug » Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:49 am

I used to print on paper. White printer papare works just well with many filaments.

I don't do that anymore since it gets messy when you remove the part, and need to scrap the paper off the glass. However, I would definitely give it a try if I ever need to print a filament that does not stick to anything else.

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Re: Nylon

Post by TFMike » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:19 pm

nebbian wrote:I tried printing some nylon last night on my PEI bed.

At 105 degrees bed and 240 nozzle, it stuck nicely. Until the second layer that is... Nylon looks to be a lot more fussy with regard to temperature than the other filaments I've tried.

I have some R/C modelling birch plywood, it's really thin, and will try printing on top of that this weekend.



Nylon generally won't stick to PEI. Lulzbot recommends using a PVA solution to force it to stick.

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Re: Nylon

Post by nebbian » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:41 pm

Hmmmm. I tried the birch plywood last night, and again the nylon peeled itself off after the first few layers. It seems that Nylon has even more of a warp-tendency than ABS. I find that hard to believe, but there you go.

I'll try the PVA solution on top of the plywood next (don't really want to put it on my lovely PEI surface).

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Re: Nylon

Post by TFMike » Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:02 pm

nebbian wrote:Hmmmm. I tried the birch plywood last night, and again the nylon peeled itself off after the first few layers. It seems that Nylon has even more of a warp-tendency than ABS. I find that hard to believe, but there you go.

I'll try the PVA solution on top of the plywood next (don't really want to put it on my lovely PEI surface).


are you using blue trimmer line or some type of exotic taulman filament? Are you drying it in an oven first? If so, is the oven electric or gas? What are your print settings? What is the part you are tryin to print?

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Re: Nylon

Post by nebbian » Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:46 pm

TFMike wrote:
nebbian wrote:Hmmmm. I tried the birch plywood last night, and again the nylon peeled itself off after the first few layers. It seems that Nylon has even more of a warp-tendency than ABS. I find that hard to believe, but there you go.

I'll try the PVA solution on top of the plywood next (don't really want to put it on my lovely PEI surface).


are you using blue trimmer line or some type of exotic taulman filament? Are you drying it in an oven first? If so, is the oven electric or gas? What are your print settings? What is the part you are tryin to print?


I'm using nylon from here:
http://www.aurarum.com.au/other-materia ... ralia.html

Nylon was stored in a ziplock bag with dessicant as soon as it was taken out of the original packaging, it's not foaming or spitting when I get the temperature right.

Printing at 237/230 degrees, with bed temps of 105/100, layer height of 0.3mm, printing this:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:16510

I only get a couple of layers into the bottom square before the warping grabs the piece and peels it off the bed.

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Re: Nylon

Post by TFMike » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:53 pm

Try applying a PVA solution or glue stick to a cold bed and dont heat it up so hot. Between 40-90 degrees C should hopefully be enough. Also, try adding a significant brim to the part to keep it stuck to the bed.

If that doesnt work then go with the extreme solution of just squriting white school glue directly onto the bed and then smooth it out with a credit or business card.

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Re: Nylon

Post by Sonrisa3D » Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:02 pm


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Re: Nylon

Post by Eaglezsoar » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:22 pm

Thanks for the link Sonrisa3D.
That was a quick but good read.

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Re: Nylon

Post by cope413 » Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:57 pm

100 is too hot for the bed.

60-70C. Elmer's glue on glass, buildtak, or pei should all work.

It doesn't shrink as much as ABS, but with that much heat it will.

Nylon has a lower Tg than ABS - 45-70C depending on the polymer. Having the bed at 100+C puts you well past Tg, and thus, you'll have trouble with curling and warping.

There's no need to reinvent the wheel here. I've printed well over 50 pounds of nylon. Dry the nylon. Glue on glass (or PEI, or buildtak... it's sticking to the glue, not the surface), 60-70C bed. Brim may be necessary on larger prints.

Done and done.
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Re: Nylon

Post by geneb » Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:20 pm

From what I've read in the past, the most important part is getting that Nylon dried.

Cope, you should post pics of some of the Nylon gears you've produced.

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Re: Nylon

Post by cope413 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:32 pm

Ask and ye shall receive.

Hot off the machine in freshly dried blue trimmer line (dried in a vacuum oven @ 150F)

This gear goes on a 36v 600w electric skateboard and can take a 250-300lb rider 20+ mph for 8-10 miles.

I made and sold 400-500 of these things from 2012-2014 and I saw exactly 4 break - 2 of those were user error.

This stuff is indestructible, prints buttery smooth when dry, and has very little warp.

I modeled my part in Solidworks with a .5mm thick brim. You can see it in the first picture, and the finished piece with the brim removed.

If you pull the part off while it's still warm, the brim comes off pretty easily with a swift yank. If you let it fully cool, you need a sharp razor to trim it off. Nylon is tough stuff.

2016-02-13 11.28.33.jpg


2016-02-13 11.19.14.jpg


2016-02-13 11.20.04.jpg


FWIW, I have access to 50+ different filaments at work, and I get a half dozen new sample filaments to test every month or so, and the blue trimmer line is still my favorite material to print with.

Just plain awesome.


Happy Printing!
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