Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

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JFettig
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Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by JFettig » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:39 am

I spent a ton of time digging around in different threads and the firmware trying to figure out what I need to do to get my new dual extrusion setup working correctly. Here is the one stop shop:

Step 1: backup your EEPROM data!

Wire connections:
Extruder 1:
Heat 0 for cartridge heater
T0 thermister

Extruder 2:
Heat 1 for cartridge heater
T1 thermister

Heatsink fan:
Fan0

Layer Fan:
Fan1 (I have not tested this, I don't print PLA).

Extruder motor to E1

Now in the firmware, stuff to change and line number in .91 firmware from SeeMeCNC.

Configuration.h

#define NUM_EXTRUDER 2 line 49
#define EXT0_X_OFFSET 720 line 164 - steps for Chimera, its an eeprom value to calculate
#define EXT0_TEMPSENSOR_TYPE 8 line 187
#define EXT0_EXTRUDER_COOLER_PIN 8 line 273
#define EXT1_X_OFFSET -720 line 279 - steps for Chimera, its an eeprom value to calculate
#define EXT1_STEPS_PER_MM 92.4 line 282
#define EXT1_TEMPSENSOR_TYPE 8 line 301
#define EXT1_MAX_FEEDRATE 100 line 317
#define EXT1_EXTRUDER_COOLER_PIN 8 adds cooling fan to same pin for 2nd extruder
#define EXT1_MAX_START_FEEDRATE 45 line 320
#define EXT1_MAX_ACCELERATION 6500 line 323
#define EXT1_HEAT_MANAGER 1 line 329
#define MAXTEMP 300 line 575
#define MOTOR_CURRENT {175,175,175,200,165} line 701, my 2nd extruder is kysan
#define UI_SET_MAX_EXTRUDER_TEMP 300 line 1240(E3D)

#define EXT1_TEMPSENSOR_PIN TEMP_1_PIN line 303
#define EXT1_HEATER_PIN HEATER_1_PIN line 305

Pins.h

rambo starts at line 1448?
#define HEATER_1_PIN 7 line 1485
#define TEMP_1_PIN 1 line 1486
#define FAN_PIN 6 line 1510 - layer fan
#define E1_PINS E1_STEP_PIN,E1_DIR_PIN,E1_ENABLE_PIN,E1_MS1_PIN,E1_MS2_PIN, line 1517

To set up your screen to show both extruders and do other cool stuff, RocketMagnet posted up some good info here:
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=6989&hilit=position#p60112

Do not restore your EEPROM data directly - pick and choose the correct stuff, don't overwrite the second extruder settings that we just changed in the firmware.

PID autotune, refer to the build manual for what to do with this if you don't know already:

M303 P0 S200 - this is for Extruder 0
M303 P1 S200 - this is for Extruder 1
M303 P2 S60 - this is for the heated bed


Reference threads:
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1946
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=2152
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=5665#p42257
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=1106
viewtopic.php?f=41&t=4559
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=1946&start=80#p33081
http://reprap.org/wiki/Rambo_development
probably plenty more I forgot to post up.
Last edited by JFettig on Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:48 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by JFettig » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:04 pm

*crickets*...


actually that is what my Kysan sounds like.

Something I've noticed - when it calls M84 command to disable the steppers, it disables all except the 2nd extruder motor - any ideas?

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by JFettig » Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:45 am

Updated to fix the second extruder cooling issue.

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by theverant » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:43 pm

Thanks for posting - just got my Chimera and this is the same setup I envisioned. Good to have confirmation of it actually working before I rip out my old setup. :D

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by Eaglezsoar » Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:34 pm

Just found your guide and I want to thank you for posting it for all.
Great job!

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by theverant » Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:49 pm

M303 P1 S200 seems to do nothing. The other two commands work as expected. Any ideas on what the problem is? I can heat the second extruder manually in Repetier fine. But I can't get the autotune to work. :(

Edit: Using the EEPROM in Repetier Host I changed the Ext2 Heat Manager from 0 to 1 and this seemed to do it.

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by JFettig » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:48 pm

Thanks for the update - I updated the list above, let me know if I forgot to record anything else.

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by duvdev » Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:15 am

hello,

I want to order the Chimera for my stock rostock max v2 printer.
Is the rambo card can handle it? the extra extruter and motor?

How and where I need to ajust the offset in the 2 nozzels?

Thanks a lot.

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by jdurand » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:35 pm

The Rambo can definitely handle the two motors and extra extruder. When I built my v2 I pre-wired it for that. If you used stock wire locations, you'll have to move some and fix in the configuration.h file.

I think you have to set the offsets in whatever slicer you use, I don't think there's one universal place to set them. I may be wrong, I haven't looked at it for a while since I just received the Chimera and haven't installed it yet.
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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by duvdev » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:48 pm

Thank for the answer.
I am going to do that on a brand new printer I ordered.
the only thing I dont understand is where I connect the layer fans?

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by Polygonhell » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:52 pm

You can adjust the nozzle offsets in either the firmware, or the slicer.
IME there's a bug in Repetier firmware that results in it missing nozzle swaps occasionally, so I do it in the slicer.
Having said that, IMO dual extrusion with separate nozzles isn't worth while, the unused nozzle is dragged across the printed part continuously. Solutions like the cyclops make a lot more sense to me.

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by JFettig » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:53 pm

JFettig wrote:#define EXT0_X_OFFSET 720 line 164 - steps for Chimera, its an eeprom value to calculate

#define EXT1_X_OFFSET -720 line 279 - steps for Chimera, its an eeprom value to calculate


From the first post - this is where you set the offset and it is the offset for a chimera mounted perfectly on the x-z plane.

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by JFettig » Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:55 pm

Polygonhell wrote:You can adjust the nozzle offsets in either the firmware, or the slicer.
IME there's a bug in Repetier firmware that results in it missing nozzle swaps occasionally, so I do it in the slicer.
Having said that, IMO dual extrusion with separate nozzles isn't worth while, the unused nozzle is dragged across the printed part continuously. Solutions like the cyclops make a lot more sense to me.


I'm starting to agree with this - especially when a delta like this doesn't run flat across the surface and the effector tilts causing one nozzle to be lower than the other in certain regions. I have only been printing with 1 nozzle lately, especially on anything of size.

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by duvdev » Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:23 pm

But if you only have one nozzle what do you do when you want to print a complicated model with support that will dissolve when its done?
for example I print pla and I want hips as support material ?

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by Polygonhell » Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:29 pm

To start with my experience with multi material support is only a very few very specific combinations work, PVA and PLA or HIPS and ABS, and they can be extruded at very similar temperatures, so it's not a big issue.
Most plastics will not stick to each other, for example print PLA on ABS or viceversa and you'll discover the two don't bond and the ABS just curls off the PLA, which limits the usefulness.
This whole dissolvable support thing sounds great until you actually try it, PVA is so hydoscopic that it's unprintable in a matter of days, and HIPS requires Limonene to dissolve, and pretty much fresh Limonene for each dissolve which gets expensive pretty quickly.
I just pulled the kraken off my printer, I was using it with 2 extruders, after messings around and getting dual extrusion working and messing around with a few test prints, I ended up just moving one nozzle up out of the way because it would hit any raised part of the print resulting in a failed print.
Most commercial dual head printers use a tilting mechanism to avoid this issue, but even then you have the drooling print head issue.

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by Nylocke » Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:08 pm

With some experimentation Ive found Ninjaflex sticks nicely to ABS. Not exactly useful for support, but it makes for some cool multi material applications.

I haven't had any lifting corners issues, nor have I had drooling issues. KISS+some custom nozzle change G-code works really nicely for that. It bumps up the print time, but it works pretty well, just drop the unused nozzle temp down and then force it to wait for it to heat back up on a switch. The only material it doesn't work with very well is Ninjaflex, retractions and all. Thats why I use the wall as well.

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by duvdev » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:36 pm

So do you think the cyclops is better then the chimera?

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by Polygonhell » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:16 am

I don't have either, but I think the concept of a single nozzle for multiple filaments is a good one, it resolves almost all of the tricky issues with dual extrusion. Having said that the cyclops specifically is listed as experimental.

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by nee4d » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:38 am

Hi, I've used this particular thread to get my printer ready for printing with an E3D Chimera. All physical tweaking is done, Nozzles levelled and temperatures calibrated nicely. I even set the LCD to display the 3 temps.

Image

Problem I am having is that the offset just does not seem to be taken into account. I have tried slicing with Cura and Slic3r and I have tried both Repetier and Matter Control and each time the two materials do not line up. Each time they are the same 18mm apart. I have saved the + and - 720 in the firmware on their respective lines and I have told Repetier Host that Nozzle 1 has x offset -9 and Nozzle 2 has +9 but still the prints do not line up.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I feel I have everything else dialled in and I'm dying to get back to prnting.

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by JFettig » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:46 am

Don't tell the slicer or host where they are at, the firmware will take care of it.

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by nee4d » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:22 pm

I undone all adjustments to offset except those in Firmware and noticed that it got worse... by exactly double. I have set Extruder 1 as Left Hand, as you look at the printer and Extruder 2 as Right Hand side, I've reversed the signs for EXT0 and 1 offsets in firmware and I'm just waiting on some ABS goo to melt before trying another print but I have a strong feeling this will do it.

Thanks for the help, its such as small difference but I had tried a lot of changes and obviously less is more.

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by BenTheRighteous » Mon May 25, 2015 9:54 pm

Just saw this thread today. THANKS for the awesome guide! Got me up and running with a second e3d in no time!
nitewatchman wrote:it was much cleaner and easier than killing a chicken on top of the printer.

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by BenTheRighteous » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:36 am

JFettig wrote:Something I've noticed - when it calls M84 command to disable the steppers, it disables all except the 2nd extruder motor - any ideas?


I noticed the same thing. Seems like M84 only disables the most recently-used extruder, rather than all of them.

If you use Repetier Host and press the Disable Steppers button, you'll still hear the whine from the other extruder idling. But if you switch to that extruder, move it forward or back by 1mm and then press the Disable Steppers button again, it shuts off.

At least it's a clue what's going on...
nitewatchman wrote:it was much cleaner and easier than killing a chicken on top of the printer.

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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by techstorage » Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:52 pm

Thanks for this post JFettig, I am working on getting my Dual extrusion parts printed... I like your top mount for the Extruders. I read for these new E3D heads we should change to a Geared head stepper motor on our bowden tube setup. are you using the 5:1 gearbox ratio?
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Re: Dual Extrusion Repetier .91+RAMBO+E3D Chimera

Post by JFettig » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:04 pm

I don't have the cyclops and haven't needed geared extruder motors. I do have 2 for my next machine

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