PEI Print Surface How To - recap

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TN Yankee
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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby TN Yankee » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:36 pm

You can also get large sheets from https://www.zoro.com/search?q=pei&brand=ULTEM. I ordered a 12x24 piece for $28, & delivery was in a few days for $5. I haven't used it yet, so can't comment on the surface finish. One "cut" edge was rather jagged, so be prepared for trimming. OTOH, as I recall it was pretty true to size, unlike the undersized piece I got from Amazon last year.

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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby dunginhawk » Mon May 09, 2016 12:44 pm

Yeah, problem is I cant find anything 17x17 which is essentially what I need for my gmax 1.5xt+/ Right now ive just got 2 pieces of pei, so there is a seam, but i doubt it will matter much, so maybe ill just stick with that :)

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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby abecker » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:24 am

You may be able to get this company to make a custom size for the gmax. They also have precut 12" diameter circles precut. I saw this listed in another thread here.

http://catalog.cshyde.com/viewitems/3d- ... /ultem-pei

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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby CodonExe » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:23 pm

You can add KAPTON tape(on the side your not going to print on) before you install the adhesive on your PEI sheet as an alternative to using flat black bbq/stove paint, that way dc42's Mini Height Sensor Board will trigger properly.
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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby TwoTone » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:17 pm

This company has the PEI with adhesive.
http://www.cshyde.com/index.html

I ordered it a little larger to give me a little wiggle room when laying it down.

Once it's down you can run a sharp razor around the edge to trim it off.

This was the part number they gave me. 36-3A-3D-D-12.25 -$11.76/each.
Had it in a few days after ordering it.

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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby Qdeathstar » Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:04 pm

got the 10mills vision from them, nice quality :) ^^^

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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby Eaglezsoar » Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:19 pm

Thanks for the link to the CSHYDE Company, I think I will give them a try as Amazon is undersized.
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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby PannDemic » Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:33 pm

I ordered a PEI sheet from CSHYDE and the adhesive "settled" under a print. There was enough movement that it allowed the PEI to flex to a point of sheering and pieces the size of my thumbnail started to tear off when I would remove them from the build plate. I ended up having to scrap that piece altogether after about 3 months of use. I have sent a mail to them asking for a custom cut in a 40 mil thickness. Hoping for some better durabilty that way. Until then I had to reinstall my old system and re-calibrate and test.

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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby TwoTone » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:12 pm

PannDemic wrote:I ordered a PEI sheet from CSHYDE and the adhesive "settled" under a print. There was enough movement that it allowed the PEI to flex to a point of sheering and pieces the size of my thumbnail started to tear off when I would remove them from the build plate. I ended up having to scrap that piece altogether after about 3 months of use. I have sent a mail to them asking for a custom cut in a 40 mil thickness. Hoping for some better durabilty that way. Until then I had to reinstall my old system and re-calibrate and test.


I have to say you did a poor job of installing it then. We have the thin 3mil stuff and haven't had a single problem in the 6 months we've had it.

Did you spray the glass and the adhesive side of the PEI with warm water with a tiny bit of dish washing soap, position then squeegee out the water?

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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby Outsider » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:57 pm

I found a 13" wide roll of Kapton tape and have been using it with great success. I found this video on you-tube that shows the method I use to apply the tape. From start to finish it takes me about 10-15 minutes to coat my glass. I use a credit card to smooth out the air bubbles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeOpgnswXks

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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby PannDemic » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:12 pm

TwoTone wrote:I have to say you did a poor job of installing it then. We have the thin 3mil stuff and haven't had a single problem in the 6 months we've had it.

Did you spray the glass and the adhesive side of the PEI with warm water with a tiny bit of dish washing soap, position then squeegee out the water?


I did not, I had read that using soap and water ruined the adhesive they place on it. Made it so that it would never really stick.
I thought I had it well installed. I did squeegee down and when freshly installed it was very smooth zero air bubbles.
I love the stuff and have already placed an order for more, I will definitely use soap and water if it makes it easier to install and keeps the surface pristine print after print.

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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby Xenocrates » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:36 pm

PannDemic wrote:
TwoTone wrote:I have to say you did a poor job of installing it then. We have the thin 3mil stuff and haven't had a single problem in the 6 months we've had it.

Did you spray the glass and the adhesive side of the PEI with warm water with a tiny bit of dish washing soap, position then squeegee out the water?


I did not, I had read that using soap and water ruined the adhesive they place on it. Made it so that it would never really stick.
I thought I had it well installed. I did squeegee down and when freshly installed it was very smooth zero air bubbles.
I love the stuff and have already placed an order for more, I will definitely use soap and water if it makes it easier to install and keeps the surface pristine print after print.


According to the 3M datasheet, 100 hours of water immersion for the 200MP series adhesive (Which is used to make the 468MP tape which is usually used to attach PEI) has no benefits and in fact exhibited a 116% adhesion factor relative to the un-immersed control. The biggest factor is probably that you want to keep in under weight for at least 1 day to dry out after doing the soap+water method, which will allow the bond strength to get to a higher level, as the 200 series gains major strength when allowed to set. I also suggest that you use an aluminum plate rather than glass as your substrate, as it offers ~25% more strength according to the datasheet, as well as better temperature control, however it is difficult to get properly flat aluminum plates without some amount of effort. I did however find that mine at very least was flat enough (1/8 inch aluminum plate from Metal-Depot, 12X24) and made me two build plates.

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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby joe » Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:46 am

PannDemic wrote:I ordered a PEI sheet from CSHYDE and the adhesive "settled" under a print. There was enough movement that it allowed the PEI to flex to a point of sheering and pieces the size of my thumbnail started to tear off when I would remove them from the build plate. I ended up having to scrap that piece altogether after about 3 months of use. I have sent a mail to them asking for a custom cut in a 40 mil thickness. Hoping for some better durabilty that way. Until then I had to reinstall my old system and re-calibrate and test.


I am closing in on 3 years on my original in piece of 3 mil PEI. Didn't squeegee or soap it on. Just did it carefully . I have well over 1500 hours on it. It is awesome stuff.

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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby TwoTone » Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:57 pm

joe wrote:
PannDemic wrote:I ordered a PEI sheet from CSHYDE and the adhesive "settled" under a print. There was enough movement that it allowed the PEI to flex to a point of sheering and pieces the size of my thumbnail started to tear off when I would remove them from the build plate. I ended up having to scrap that piece altogether after about 3 months of use. I have sent a mail to them asking for a custom cut in a 40 mil thickness. Hoping for some better durabilty that way. Until then I had to reinstall my old system and re-calibrate and test.


I am closing in on 3 years on my original in piece of 3 mil PEI. Didn't squeegee or soap it on. Just did it carefully . I have well over 1500 hours on it. It is awesome stuff.



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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby Doug68 » Wed May 24, 2017 1:46 am

What I've struggled to find on the web is recommended bed temps for printing different materials on PEI.
For PLA I'm now running at 80c, for some reason I first tried at 45c and that was not enough.
Is there a guide to this somewhere or do you copy the glue on glass temps?

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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby DeltaCon » Wed May 24, 2017 3:21 am

I think most of us print PLA around 60C and ABS around 90C. Important is to give your bed time to even out temp, and let the surface reach the set temp (PEI is an insulator!). So do not start too quickly after starting the heater.
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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby mhackney » Wed May 24, 2017 9:49 am

PLA - 60°C first layer and then 55°C for the rest of print
ABS - 75°C for all layers
PETG - 70°C for all layers

And DeltaCon is right on - let the bed come up to temp and equilibrate for at least 10 minutes at temps below 60° and much longer for higher temps.

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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby TwoTone » Wed May 24, 2017 12:17 pm

Just as an FYI since this was brought back up.

I know people didn't like the CSHyde material because of the thickness. I tried the Amazon stuff- even with all my experience doing similar things, it didn't come out well. Got a quote from CSHyde for thicker material. Little more than the Amazon stuff but worth it for ease of application.

(.5mm) 36-20A-3D-D-12.25 -$40.45
(1mm) 36-40A-3D-D-12.25 -$45.05

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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby mhackney » Wed May 24, 2017 12:34 pm

I still don't know how to reconcile claims that "brand X PEI" doesn't work as well. I have PEI from every vendor I know about on 20+ different printers and I've never had one that doesn't work well AFTER a good cleaning and light sanding.

Even the thin stuff is fine, it works well.

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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby TwoTone » Wed May 24, 2017 4:48 pm

If you're responding to me I was talking about the installation.

The separate adhesive is a PAI to work with. The PEI is great. I tried Printbite since we were using an IR sensor.

That was a royal to get things to stick- huge waste of money and time.

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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby mhackney » Wed May 24, 2017 6:44 pm

Ah, yes, the pre-coated adhesive is much easier to work with.

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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby Doug68 » Wed May 24, 2017 6:44 pm

Thanks for the replies on the bed temp, that helps.

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Re: PEI Print Surface How To - recap

Postby DeltaCon » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:33 pm

I recently got my hands on 2pcs of 5mm thick aluminium discs waterjetted out of plain brute constructive aluminium plate (not sure about exact alloy but nothing OOtO for sure). I hope it is as stiff as the boro glas. I still had one of those Gizmodorks 0.8mm PEI sheets that are sold on Amazon with the infamous 3M tape. Previously I did a wet application to the boro glass, and although that looked good in the end I found that it bulges while getting prints off. So this time I tried dry application directly to the alu disc and I am really happy with the result. I forgot to take pictures, but here is how I did it:

- The alu was brute (not painted or anodized or anything, just plain alu, so I took a grit 500 and a 1000 in turn to smooth the surface and get rid of some white alu rust spots.
- This disc has enough weight of it's own to prevent it from sliding over my table (which has a cutting matt on top). If yours doesn't, take a piece of double sided flat tape to fix the disc to the table
- The 3M tape is delivered in a measurement of 30.5 x 30.5 cm is a real pain indeed. because it has a very week structure of it's own, you must use the liner for the structure. Fit the sheet on the alu disc, nicely in the middle of it (with both liners still in place!)
- Take two piece of painters tape (color of choice ;) ) and stick them to the table at two opposite corners of the glue sheet
- Put something heavy on the sheet and the disc, so that the sheet does not move
- Draw a pencil along the corners of the sheet to the painters tape. This way you don't have to guess the correct position later.
- The brown liner is the crafty one that keeps structure to the glue film, and is more difficult to remove against the flimsy white liner.
- Flap back a 4 or 5 cm of a corner of the white liner. Turn it glue side down and position it to the drawn angle. Keep the opposite side also aligned to the drawn angle on the paintertape. Mind that the glue liner still does not touch the alu.
- Now flipp over the 3M sheet so you can take off the whole white liner. Try to do that in one smooth move. Did I mention to make enough room on your table?
- Flipp back the 3M sheet over the alu disc and hold it like 10cm above the angle you drew on the painters tape. mind that you hold a bit of tension to the sheet so that it does not bend and touch the alu
- With a squeegee and NO WATER you can now begin the swipe down the glue against the aly, from the pre-stuck corner to the opposite while still holding the other corner about 5cm high above the table. Squeegee lightly (else wrinkles!) all the way to the opposite corner.
- If you did it gently you will have an as good as bubble free 3M film attached to the alu disc (I must admit that I have a bit of experience as signmaker)
- Now you can squeegee a bit more firmly a second time. Don't try to squeegee out bubbles because you will deform the glue liner and that will become a high area in your printbed later. It is better to puncture the bubbles and press the air out perpendicular to the bed if needed.
- Turn over the alu disc, and cut the corners of the 3M sheet off against the alu.
- Turn it back over again and take out the PEI sheet. LEAVE THE THIN FILM ON AS LONG AS POSSIBLE to prevent static to pull dust or thin particles (3D printing rooms are often no cleanrooms :lol: )
- You can use the painters tape again to position the alu disc in the middle of the PEI sheet. (Did I mention to leave the painters tape with the angles where the are?)
- Now first take off the brown liner from the 3M tape, try to do that in one smooth move
- Then take off the thin film from ONE of the sided (Gizmodork PEI is equal on both sides, it is said that some brands have one matte side, so then it is time to choose to go for matte or glossy). DO NOT LAY DOW THE PEI anywhere, because it is static and will attract dust.Place one corner of the PEI in the angle you drew earlier, press it down and in one smooth move, bend and curl down the PEI with considerable force.
- You get only one try, if you lift the PEI again you can start all over again, and to be honest, cleaning the alu and PEI is not worth my time, I would order new...
- Now you can squeegee firmly, or even take your mum's dough rolling pin to firmly press the PEI to the alu disc.
- Flip over the whole circus and cut the corners against the alu (yes PEI 0.8mm can be cut with a firm stanley knife, it takes 3 or 4 firm traces).
- I was never lucky getting my prints to stick immediately, so I always sand the surface lightly with grit 1000 sandpaper, until it looks equally grey everywhere.

Happy printing! Don't forget to set Z again of course!

Well, sounds like an awful lot of work, but in my case it took only a minute or 5. Reading this story takes longer. Because no water is used, it doesn't need to dry and you can start printing right away. Strongest adhesion however will be reach after a few hours.
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