PEI print bed surface experiments

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teoman
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby teoman » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:25 pm

My 3mm arrived. I have clamped it on and it is printing nicely now. No adhesives!

I removed the glass plate and put pei directly on the AL.
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby mhackney » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:33 pm

I'm very interested in this option. Could you take some photos please? How flat was your sheet? I am concerned about bowing and having a hump somewhere (even .05mm would be a pain). I wonder if there is some light tack option to hold this stuff down.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby teoman » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:44 pm

.7mm nozzle at the moment.

Ill try to post pictures in a wee bit.
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby Eaglezsoar » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:03 pm

mhackney wrote:I'm very interested in this option. Could you take some photos please? How flat was your sheet? I am concerned about bowing and having a hump somewhere (even .05mm would be a pain). I wonder if there is some light tack option to hold this stuff down.


Possibility? http://www.amazon.com/DEI-010490-Temp-S ... B002Q2PR9E

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby mhackney » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:07 pm

That looks interesting Eagle! Unfortunately, it is not available on Catalina Island so that might limit it's distribution :)

I am going to pick some up to test. This isn't what I had in mind as I think it makes a "permanent" bond - but might be a good replacement for the tape.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby BenTheRighteous » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:13 pm

mhackney wrote:I use PEI from both Amazon and McMaster with no problems. I do sand my surface with 600 grit (wet with a little water) to get a matte finish. This likely helps sticking too. But, the glossy side holds tenaciously as well. I also swipe the surface with isopropyl alcohol if I start to see any adherence issues. Finger print grease and other contaminants do affect this stuff too.


I'm well aware of the need to keep your PEI crud-free and I sanded/cleaned my Amazon sheet regularly. It NEVER worked as well as the McMaster sheet is working already.

My theory is that when you buy off Amazon, the order is fulfilled by a mostly random pick of dozens of vendors. Some are good, some not so good. I'm sure people have gotten the good vendors and a good product, I wasn't so lucky.

McMaster on the other hand has a reputation to protect, which gets you quality every time.

Anyway, just sharing my experience so others might benefit.
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby bot » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:28 pm

mhackney wrote:I'm very interested in this option. Could you take some photos please? How flat was your sheet? I am concerned about bowing and having a hump somewhere (even .05mm would be a pain). I wonder if there is some light tack option to hold this stuff down.


None of my sheets are flat, at all, but when clamped down are flat enough (flatter than the toolpath, it seems :P).

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby teoman » Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:37 am

Not sure how informative that picture is going to be.

The part stuck on really well. Had to put the part in to the freezer to get it to release. I should probably dial down the bed temp.

Once the bed comes up to room temp i'll put it up against my window (flattest thing in my house) and report back.
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby teoman » Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:05 am

The 3 mm pei is slightly bowed. When i put it flat against the window and apply pressure from the center the edge rises 1.5-2 mm (eyeball measurement).
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby nitewatchman » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:28 pm

teoman wrote:Not sure how informative that picture is going to be.

The part stuck on really well. Had to put the part in to the freezer to get it to release. I should probably dial down the bed temp.

Once the bed comes up to room temp i'll put it up against my window (flattest thing in my house) and report back.


I struggled with this for quite a while. After having issues with ABS sticking, I suddenly could not get it off the PEI. Some small parts had to be dissolved with acetone to get all the torn bits and "stuff" off.

I discovered that in my enthusiasm to really get it to stick, the first layer was bring mashed in too tight. When I started running a 200% first layer and making sure it measures the expected height, the issue largely went away. I still keep a can of cold air (-50F or so) to spray on tough parts being careful not to spray the glass or PEI.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby earlynerd » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:50 pm

Has anyone else had issues with the 468MP tape coming off the roll cleanly? The edges of the actual tape on my roll seems to stick to the next layer and wrinkle badly as I peel it off the roll. I haven't even tried to put any on the glass yet since I can't seem to get 12" of unwrinkled tape. I bought it on Amazon, it is the "TapeCase 468MP 1in X 20yd Adhesive Transfer Tape" shipped from and sold by Amazon. I guess I will try to return it or get a replacement, but I'm a bit worried that the next roll may be just as bad. It is like the edges of the roll have been banged up or smashed a bit, they look alright but the side of the roll seems very sticky. Is there another place I could try ordering besides Amazon that ya'll have had good luck with?
I suppose I could go for the 12x12" sheet listed there, but getting that applied cleanly seems like it could be a major challenge.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby mhackney » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:53 pm

Yes, sometimes i get a dud roll. If you are lucky it is just on the outside and you can peal off a few turns to get to the clean stuff. I haven't found another reasonably priced vendor. I wouldn't be shy of the 12" stuff, it works great and no risk of bad edges.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby nitewatchman » Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:12 am

I would also encourage you to consider the 12"x12" tape sheet.

I peel the paper slip sheet off as I roll it on to the PEI and then peel the other sheet as I roll the PEI onto the glass and it behaves very well. There are all sorts of funny looking shapes and things in the tape looking through from the PEI side but:

a) It is tightly adhered.

b) It is flat with no humps, no bumps or no errors.

c) There are no obvious air bubbles, lots of funny fractals though.

d) The PEI stays flat as it heats up.

Biggest down side is that the tape sheets come in packs of 6. For me not a problem, I keep three PEI coated beds or at least the material to have three beds on hand. I have also retired two PEI sheets, one with wear and damage in the center, the other attached to a broken Boro Glass Plate.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby teoman » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:32 am

Currently i am not mashing my abs in to the pei, first layer is 0.3mm.

I am getting very good results with 50 deg C bed now.

It still sticks on a bit too hard. But i can unclip the pei, flex it a bit to remove the part.

Now i am looking at my bulky 24v power supply next to the printer and scratching my head. It this is the end result i probably will not be needing it any longer.
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby teoman » Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:18 pm

Well the 50 degs did not quite work out. Could be that i have been fondling the bed for some time and it had my finger oils. I gave the bed a good acetone wipe and i have upped the temp to 70 degs. 7 hour print that i have to finish before tomorrow for my students. I will report back how it goes.
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby bot » Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:23 pm

If you're talking about ABS, I have the best luck going to like 100 minimum. 110 or 115 sometimes, even.
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby teoman » Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:40 pm

115 was my magical temp with the old setup.

Good stiction and complete post release.
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby mhackney » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:07 pm

@teoman and @everyone - don't use acetone on PEI. This might be what's leading to some of the inconsistent results I've read. PEI can dissolve or craze and crack with acetone. I've observed the crazing myself. Much safer (and effective and SAFER to the human) is isopropyl alcohol - it removes finger oils, etc.

I print ABS on 95° PEI (amazon and McMaster) at the precise layer height (usually .20mm) with no problems with both adherence and ease of part removal.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby teoman » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:23 pm

Thanks for the info.
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby teoman » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:24 pm

Was the 95 number surface temperature or just sensor reading?
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby mhackney » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:27 pm

Thermidor reading. I have an aluminum heat dissipator and run the Onyx at 24V. I give it about 15 min to equilibrate before printing for the day.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby teoman » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:33 pm

Same setup as me, except thick pei instead of glass.
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby mhackney » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:38 pm

Try isopropyl alcohol to clean.

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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby teoman » Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:01 am

I use isopropyl alcohol (have lots of those medical pads) to clean the PEI.

While experimenting i have some parts that I have managed to weld firmly on to the PEI. I have been doing my best to peel it of using my fingernails, but i do not have much fingernail left :(

How would one go about removing the ABS that has been welded on to the PEI? All i can think of at this moment is acetone.
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Re: PEI print bed surface experiments

Postby Windshadow » Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:40 am

teoman wrote:I use isopropyl alcohol (have lots of those medical pads) to clean the PEI.

While experimenting i have some parts that I have managed to weld firmly on to the PEI. I have been doing my best to peel it of using my fingernails, but i do not have much fingernail left :(

How would one go about removing the ABS that has been welded on to the PEI? All i can think of at this moment is acetone.

in the machine shop differential heating and cooling is a favorite way... I have access to dry ice locally due to mail-order seafood companies so I would heat the PEI with the stuck object and then apply the dry ice right under the object....

but that is based on various metal things stuck together I have no idea how PEI would fair with that great a temperature gradient.


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