Printing with Line trimmer

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teoman
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby teoman » Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:50 pm

I have started fantasizin about printing in nylon.

Just had a look at the E3D site. They seem to have a v6 out for their hot end. I also saw the kraken multi head extruder. Would that be able to do the job? Or would it complicate life too much?
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby Fester » Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:31 pm

I have ordered my first roll of nylon . I have also just installed a new E3D v6 head on my Orion .Will post my results . :mrgreen:

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby 1ggy » Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:45 pm

I've got a line and I've done some experimenting. I think bare glass plus the purple glue will work best for adhesion unless you have the garolite sheet. Still have some issues with warping, though.

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby teoman » Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:19 pm

dpmacri wrote:
0110-m-p wrote:Just ordered my E3D hotend this morning. Anyone have a link to the actual trimmer line that you are using with your printer?


http://www.amazon.com/Maxpower-333665-R ... immer+line





Aaa shizzz, this is double the price for me with shipping :(
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby cope413 » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:37 pm

FWIW, I recently finished my 21st roll of that trimmer line from Amazon (Desert Extrusion - same mfg Taulman works with)

For larger parts, PVA glue and printing with a raft (I use MatterSlice in MatterControl) virtually eliminates any warping issues.

I print with a .6 and .8mm nozzle typically. For the .6 nozzle, I use an air gap of .2 or .25mm and the raft peels off beautifully. For the .8mm nozzle, .30-.35mm air gap does the trick.

Garolite does work, but I don't like it as much as bare glass just out of convenience. Reconfiguring your bed, z-height, etc is just busy work.

I've printed quite a few things on my trusty V1. We've got a fleet of machines, but it's still my favorite and line trimmer is just plain awesome to print with.

2014-09-12 11.35.14.jpg
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby Captain Starfish » Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:25 pm

It is totally your fault, cope, with posts like these, that I am now sitting by the front door awaiting delivery of a new E3D head from McSlappy.

Started with PLA and instantly hated the shite. The only reason the two rolls of it I have aren't in rage induced pieces in the bin is that -maybe- one day I will set up with a foundry and it'll come in handy then.

Exclusively in ABS at the moment but looking forward to trying something new and nicer.

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby Generic Default » Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:31 pm

I printed almost exclusively with trimmer line for the first year I had my Rostock. More recently I've been printing with ABS a lot. ABS is stiffer and sticks to a hot bed with hairpray for relatively flat bottoms. It's hard to get a perfectly flat bottom with trimmer line using only glue stick.

But trimmer line is so much stronger and way more abrasion resistant than ABS. And cheaper, although some retailers on Amazon are now selling ABS for ~$20 per kilogram. Trimmer line from our source on Amazon costs ~$16.50 per kilogram. And just recently, acetal filament come on the retail market for $50 per kilogram. PC and PC-ABS are also $50 per kilogram.
We need to find a good support material for nylon.

Eventually I'm going to have to start extruding my own filament. There are so many plastics with better properties than what we're stuck with now. PLA is the worst!
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby teoman » Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:47 pm

How do you make nylon parts cosmetically more pleasing. Is there an acetone vapor equivalent? Sanding them or sandblasting them?
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby Mac The Knife » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:31 pm

You pretty much have to get it right the first time. With my fail, I had to use heat to get my hotend separated from the effector plate.
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby Generic Default » Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:51 pm

Did your fail involve Cura gcode putting a line in the end.gcode section that made your hotend crash into the finished print after completion and melt it with the nozzle?
I did that too! Every time I upgrade the Cura version I have to change the end.gcode file to prevent it. It took me 4 crashes to figure that out..derp.

Nylon has a smooth, low friction, sheeny surface when printed. Any post processing will make it matte and less aesthetic. Sanding doesn't work too well since nylon is abrasion resistant.

If you want aesthetic prints with nylon, use a tiny nozzle and low layers. I noticed a big reduction in surface ripples when I switched to magnetic arms too.
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby Mac The Knife » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:45 pm

Nope, my fail was leaving the room after the first layer was down, and ASSumed all was good. The print let loose after wards,,, and stuck to the nozzle. If it wasn't for the two 40 watt heaters installed, and a diehard battery, I may have had to hve tossed that hotend.
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby cope413 » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:05 pm

Generic Default wrote:If you want aesthetic prints with nylon, use a tiny nozzle and low layers. I noticed a big reduction in surface ripples when I switched to magnetic arms too.


Actually, I find just the opposite.

Interlayer adhesion is directly proportional to layer height/width (translation: nylon is much stronger when printed with bigger layers), and the low viscosity (relative) of nylon allows you to print higher layers while still maintaining good finish.

This part has .5mm layers...

2014-09-15 18.03.19.jpg

2014-09-15 18.03.15.jpg
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby Generic Default » Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:33 pm

I did notice a difference in layer adhesion when I switched to a tiny nozzle. You can print at 245 to 250 degrees with a large nozzle and get good layer adhesion; if you use a 0.25 nozzle you will need to go 260+ degrees. I print a lot of tiny, detailed parts that need ultra smooth surfaces and sharp corners. Lots of small gears and mating parts and things that need precision fits. Nylon works well for both small and large objects.

Cope, I'm guessing you fell in love with the larger nozzles and trimmer line since you print those gears for electric skateboards and stuff. Big mechanical parts are no problem with trimmer line. I just needed the blobs to go away entirely. The slicing program and hotend and cold end are big factors too. My cold end may be the reason I need such large retractions that make blobbing more visible.
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby Eaglezsoar » Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:35 am

Do you guys print on the glass with hairspray or gluesticks or do you use garolite, wood etc.
Speaking about the line trimmer nylon printing.

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby geneb » Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:56 am

This is making me nuts.

Trimmer line is what you feed a weed eater.

Line Trimmer is what you get when you feed grass to your trimmer line.

:D

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby cope413 » Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:36 pm

Straight glass with glue stick. 75C

Works every time.
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby Eaglezsoar » Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:37 am

cope413 wrote:Straight glass with glue stick. 75C

Works every time.


Thanks for the tip!

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby lightninjay » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:58 am

geneb wrote:This is making me nuts.

Trimmer line is what you feed a weed eater.

Line Trimmer is what you get when you feed grass to your trimmer line.

:D

g.


HA! I'm with you Gene, seems a bit funky to me! Just for the sake of furthering the topic though, I have managed to find 300-foot spools of Craftsman brand .065 in (1.651 mm) trimmer line at Sears for about 4 bucks and some change. At that rate, it's more expensive for a whole kilometer of the stuff, comparable to the size of a 1kg spool of our highly-prized filaments, but not by much.

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-065inch- ... 185604000P

It's twice as expensive online, but I remember walking out of the store, getting a chuckle out of the fact the the spool cost $4.20 :roll:

Here's something I printed with it, stock SeeMeCNC nozzle at about 235C if I recall.
IMG_20140920_115423.jpg
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby Bradley » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:35 pm

cope413 wrote:Straight glass with glue stick. 75C

Works every time.


Started printing with this trim line this weekend and really like the stuff. Seems very strong, a bit flexible and has great layer adherence. The only problem I am having is bed adhesion. I have printed the same object 12+ times with a variety of settings and can't seem to get it to stay flat on the build plate.

Cope, I have seen many of your prints in this thread and they look great. I tried your recommended settings with the Scotch Permanent Glue Stick, Extruder temp starts at 265 first layer, then to 260, bed starts at 80 first layer, then to 75 but then no luck. I have tried bed temperatures ranging from 60 to 90 with no better luck, I also tried hairspray, Elmer’s Purple Glue Stick and Elmer’s Extreme Glue Stick with no better results. I have been wiping the glass down with Isopropyl Alcohol between each print and applying two thick layers of glue stick at 0 and 90 degrees, allowing it to dry completely between layers of glue. The picture of your print breaking the build plate in the first page because of the amazing bed adhesion has not been a problem I am having :)

I have calibrated my machine and the first layer looks very good with a thick solid layer in contact with the glass. I have tried additional extrusion for a nicer thicker first layer without any changes in results. I have also tried a raft and reducing the speed (multiple prints and trials) with the same corner pealing results. I have not tried cooling but have not found anything in this thread that would recommend that. I baked the trim line for about 6 hours at 175 and it seems to print very cleanly. If more drying time is needed I would be glad to do that. I have been following this thread (“A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints” - viewtopic.php?f=36&t=7361 by mhackney) which has helped me become a more focused and organized printer. But sadly it hasn’t helped me print this awesome filament any better. Sorry for the long post but would really appreciate some help or recommendations on things that I could try to do to get some nice nylon prints. Thanks!

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby texsc98 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:50 pm

bought some of this stuff well over a year ago when I found this thread... Also got a kraken way back then. But finally installed the kraken (just 1 nozzle) and trying out the trimmer line as we speak. This stuff is pretty awesome! 0.4mm nozzle @ 255*C, 0.16mm layers

http://youtu.be/U3XZob5njXs
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby Nylocke » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:52 am

The glue Cope uses (and I use as well) is Scotch Permanent. I go around 95C for it to work, I don't know how Michael and Taylor get good adhesion at 70 (ABS on PEI) and 75C (Nylon on glue), but maybe I'm doing everything wrong :P

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby Renha » Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:37 am

anyone could please post a link to where to buy garolite sheet with proper thickness (or thicker)?
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby Khalid Khattak » Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:33 am

Trimmer Line is one thing that is available cheap now being used in 3D printer the price may hike-up... keep this thread away from trimmer line manufacturer ;)

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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby jdurand » Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:06 pm

Renha wrote:anyone could please post a link to where to buy garolite sheet with proper thickness (or thicker)?


Just search G-10 or FR-4, it's really just blank PC board material.
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Re: Printing with Line trimmer

Postby Renha » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:14 am

3D printing is magic!

Sorry my engrish :-/ you could PM me in Russian.


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