A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints

User-Generated tips and tricks for the Rostock Max, Orion, H1.1, or H1 Printers
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Re: A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints

Postby bot » Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:06 am

Michael, can I ask your opinion on these weird infill problems I'm having?

IMG_2459.JPG

I think it's first layer related, but I'm not sure. It's in the same spot, throughout the entire print, but only on the layers that travel parallel to the lines in the picture. On the layers that are perpendicular, it's almost flawless.
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Re: A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints

Postby BobH » Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:34 am

bot wrote:Michael, can I ask your opinion on these weird infill problems I'm having?

IMG_2459.JPG

I think it's first layer related, but I'm not sure. It's in the same spot, throughout the entire print, but only on the layers that travel parallel to the lines in the picture. On the layers that are perpendicular, it's almost flawless.


+1 I'm having the exact same issue. http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=7839 I'd love to hear from someone that has solved this problem.

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Re: A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints

Postby texsc98 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:38 am

It most likely has to do with either the delta arms slightly binding when near that position, improper belt tension (or worn belts) allowing for slight positional inaccuracy... Just my guess anyway
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Re: A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints

Postby mhackney » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:29 am

BobH, your primary issue appeared to have been incorrect Z. It looks like you are getting much better results now.

bot, given that you are seeing this "rift" on a higher layer and that it shows in the same spot on those layers, I agree with texsc98 that it is a mechanical issue of some sort. I have seen similar artifacts, I just posted about something similar in my build thread a few weeks ago.

First question: which cartesian axis of motion is this layer being printed? Is it along X, along Y or on a diagonal.

An educated guess is that there is a small piece of debris on the tower track or on a wheel. Clean everything with a soft lint free rag and Windex. If that doesn't do it, I'd suggest doing an experiment - reposting the part to place that rift in the center of it and reslice and print. You should see it now in the new location. If so, we are definitely looking at a mechanical issue of some sort. It could be belt tension or something on the belt as it runs over the pulley teeth.

Otherwise, those layers look great!

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Re: A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints

Postby bot » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:03 pm

I totally agree, it might be mechanical in nature. My belts do rub a little on the extrusions, so maybe they got effed up. Good idea on cleaning the extrusions and everything.

This happens on the diagonal. The problem area occurs directly in front of and to the "right" of the X tower. It almost corresponds with a squeaky noise coming from my Z tower, so I'm thinking a belt issue, dirty extrusions/wheels, or a loose stepper pulley.

Thanks for the thoughts everyone. I'll check into some of those things more.
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Re: A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints

Postby Dale Eason » Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:13 am

I was having a hard time following the advice on nailing the first layer thickness. I specified a layer of .3 but it usually measured close to .4 mm. I had the z height just touching the paper and leveled very well. I could only get close to .3mm if I made the tip touch the paper with a very strong pull on the paper. Finally I measured the height of the paper (.1mm). Then I looked at the GCode to discover it sets the first layer at .3mm . Add to that the height Z0 is set above the bed (the thickness of the paper .1) You will get a first layer of .4.

So the statments in the tips on the first layer say if you set it to .3 expect a .3 layer seems wrong at least for mattercontrol slicer that I'm using. I have not tried any other slicer.

Any coments about what I think I found?

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Re: A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints

Postby mhackney » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:05 am

Dale, what you discovered is correct but what I stated was actually, if you set your first layer to be, say, .3mm then it should come out to be .3mm. That INCLUDES taking into account the thickness of the paper (which can be as you've discovered non-trivial) and any slicer configuration settings. In your example, your measured first layer height should be .3mm since that is what you have your slicer configured to produce. If you want reproducibility, accurate part dimensions and complete control over the process with excellent first layer stick you should always have a printed first layer that is spot on to what your slicer is telling the printer to print.

If your paper is too thick you either compensate for this thickness, use a different paper, or use a different method to set Z=0. The paper thickness technique is a compromise and as you've discovered can be problematic. This is one reason why I do not like the "blind advice" to set the nozzle height using a strip of paper until it just snags. Firstly, papers differ in thickness, secondly, it takes skill and feedback to know what "just snags" means and lastly, you are blindly trusting this form of measurement to create a first layer that is what the slicer gcode is telling the printer to print. I prefer to set the height using whatever method is convenient as an approximation (including using paper) and then doing a test print and tweaking the Z height until the print is spot on. Do this a few days and you'll naturally figure out how much needs to be tweaked, how much "just snag" means, etc. In practice, a Z=0 should literally be with the nozzle just touching the bed surface. How could it be with a piece of paper stuck in between? Using paper is a simple compromise. It does not make any difference what slicer you use and if you have any question about what the slicer is doing, do what you did and look at the gcode and find what it is setting the first layer to be. Later, when you understand your slicer and it's configuration parameters better, you'll have control over the settings.

You have taken a big step in understanding!

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A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints

Strategies for Resolving Print Artifacts

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Re: A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints

Postby texsc98 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:34 am

I good tool I always use in place of paper is a feeler gauge (available at your nearest automobile shop or online), then you know exactly (or at least exceptionally close) the height the nozzle sits above the bed when z=0 due to the thickness printed on the feeler gauge. It also won't "wear out". The paper does have the upside of being much less expensive, and pretty much always close by or on hand though... Can't argue that point, I just already had feeler gauges sitting around
DIY instructions/videos/hardware links:
Carbon fiber rods w/ ball joints for Rostock MAX ~$40 viewtopic.php?f=36&t=2165

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Re: A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints

Postby bot » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:44 pm

10-4. I've been using a feeler gauge the past week, and it's great. (Having to level my bed a lot because I broke my boro, and been switching different plates in...)
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Re: A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints

Postby aypee » Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:05 pm

OP; super helpful post! As a newbie, just want to say thank you for taking the time!!

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Re: A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints

Postby mhackney » Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:16 pm

Glad it helped!

Cheers,
Michael

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A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints

Strategies for Resolving Print Artifacts

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Re: A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints

Postby tcat007 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:10 pm

New guy here. Printed my first 2 fan housings, no real issues (1 or 2 "blobs"). I am going to try to do the "Highcooley's Onyx Bed Leveling Aid", and imported V2 and it's off center. He said something about manually center it. How do you do that in MatterControl? I tried moving it in 3D view (looks centered and saved), but when I look at layers view it's still offset. Just want to be sure it doesn't go out of bounds.

Edit: I've tried Highcooleys v2 and the 2nd one listed. The 1st isn't centered, the 2nd looks good (on screen), but the print head goes all over the place (wrong Z). At first the Layer fan ran into a tower, so I removed it. Recalibrated zero and another Tower cal. Tried MatterSlice and Cura, both seem to crash into things. Printed a couple small parts no problem.

Edit2: Just tried printing the .2x75 test disk, actually tried ding 2 of them just because they are spread out more. Have no problem with bed calibration, measure .20-.25 all over. Do have an issue with blobs and abs gathering on the nozzle. Is this speed related, or maybe E feed related? I've tried tweaking heat and speeds.

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Re: A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints

Postby mhackney » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:41 pm

I significantly improved point #9 Know Your Filament and corrected the feedrate mistake a fellow forum member pointed out to me (thanks!).

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Start Here:
A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints

Strategies for Resolving Print Artifacts

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Re: A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints

Postby mhackney » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:54 am

Happy Second Birthday thread!

Sublime Layers - my blog on Musings and Experiments in 3D Printing Technology and Art

Start Here:
A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints

Strategies for Resolving Print Artifacts

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