E3D has released new hotends!

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Polygonhell
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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by Polygonhell » Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:01 pm

I really don;t think we need to get into an OSS pissing match here, there is plenty of that on the reprap forums if you really want to partake.

If were going to debate open source licenses, and I'd rather we didn't get into religion on the forum, I have as much as an issue with the GPL style viral licenses as I do the NC licenses.
The only really open licenses are the apache/bsd based ones, which basically amount to do whatever you want but don't blame me.

There is a whole separate legal debate as to whether these licenses designed for software even protect any portion of the actual physical hardware anyway, I guess minimally they convey the intent of the original authors.

At the end of the day people/companies can release anything under any license they want, and an NC license only (if it in fact protects anything at all legally in the hardware space) prevents direct copying and obvious derivatives, the idea is out there if someone else used a similar idea and simply redesigned the parts it would not be covered by the original license.

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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by bot » Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:23 pm

Yeah I didn't really mean to get into a "pissing match."

I was hoping e3d would release the pictures without the NC restriction... that's all. Pretty simple. If they don't want to, they don't have to... but it's kind of silly. People copy them anyway, and people still flock to e3d. They manufacture good hot ends. That is their advantage. Not licensing lingo.
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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by BenTheRighteous » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:50 pm

Guys your posts about licenses are killing me! Every time I see this thread updated, I think it's Josh telling me I won a free volcano. So far I've been disappointed every time. But I'm still holding out hope!
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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by Generic Default » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:51 pm

I think the reason why manufacturers are doing the "limited" open source stuff is to give themselves a legal advantage if they end up needing it in the future. E3D has at least three different knockoff manufacturers making clones at this point, and they have only been selling for around a year and a half. Most of the bigger manufacturers don't even give suggestions of how their products work. At least E3D goes into detail of the improvements they make! Still, the non-commercial license doesn't stop most of the cloning and I think E3D has lost a ton of potential customers to lower quality clone products. It sounds weird to say, but they're sort of in competition with themselves; if they stop making improvements and designing new products, the clone manufacturers will put them out of business.

Growing market = intense competition
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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by jdurand » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:05 am

Ok, a new silly guess about the Volcano...it's made of basalt so it can run hotter/longer.
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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by bot » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:08 am

(Okay sorry, moving on from the licensing topic)

I think jdurand is on to something here.
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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by joshuarowley42 » Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:49 am

Someone posting here is close enough to get a free Volcano upgrade! I will message you when it's out - but at that point you will know who you are anyway.. :P

I will do the drawings today and put links on the product pages and here.

Retractions on Cyclops; a 1.5mm retract during printing and 2.5mm retract on tool change gives great results. The 1.5mm works great during the print and keeps things fairly clean - the 2.5mm on tool-change reduces the volume needed for purging. An important thing to note here whilst talking about retractions on the Cyclops is to be conservative; it is imperative that the inactive chanel remains plugged by the filament, letting molten filament from the active channel travel up the inactive channel into the cold side would be bad news. It is this that makes the Cyclops "experimental".. All will be clear when I get the drawings up.

On the licensing front - allmost all points made above are valid. In a nutshell; in order to keep inovating we need to keep operating as a business, but at the same time we want to remain as open as possible because, fundamentally, that's what we believe in. As Poloygonhell mentioned, NC isn't really even appropriate and we aren't totally set on maintaining it for hardware. If honest open-source companies are interested in working with us and using our designs to better their machines then there is nothing stopping them getting in touch and asking nicely. We release our drawings publically and yes people do try to copy them but in all cases it is done badly (which is just downright confusing because the full-engineering drawings are up there..) - All-Metal HotEnds are a very trickey thing to get right and our designs mean a lot to us, if people want to use them we want to work together.

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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by jdurand » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:39 am

bot wrote:(Okay sorry, moving on from the licensing topic)

I think jdurand is on to something here.


In reality it would probably be ceramic. Could even have the heating element embedded in the matrix.
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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by 0110-m-p » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:49 am

joshuarowley42 wrote:Someone posting here is close enough to get a free Volcano upgrade! I will message you when it's out - but at that point you will know who you are anyway.. :P


Fingers crossed :D.

joshuarowley42 wrote:Retractions on Cyclops; a 1.5mm retract during printing and 2.5mm retract on tool change gives great results. The 1.5mm works great during the print and keeps things fairly clean - the 2.5mm on tool-change reduces the volume needed for purging. An important thing to note here whilst talking about retractions on the Cyclops is to be conservative; it is imperative that the inactive chanel remains plugged by the filament, letting molten filament from the active channel travel up the inactive channel into the cold side would be bad news. It is this that makes the Cyclops "experimental".. All will be clear when I get the drawings up.


In your tests, what length of retracts have you found to be the general maximum?
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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by Chrissi » Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:59 am

joshuarowley42 wrote:Someone posting here is close enough to get a free Volcano upgrade! I will message you when it's out - but at that point you will know who you are anyway.. :P

Thank You!
....but will it work with the E3DV6 hot end I just received? =)
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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by BenTheRighteous » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:16 am

joshuarowley42 wrote:Someone posting here is close enough to get a free Volcano upgrade! I will message you when it's out - but at that point you will know who you are anyway.. :P


0110-m-p wrote:Fingers crossed :D.

Chrissi wrote:Thank You!
....but will it work with the E3DV6 hot end I just received? =)

Get lost, losers! That free volcano is MINE and everyone knows it! lol ;) :lol:

In all seriousness, I think 0110 had the best guess. But I think I still have a chance. Definitely looking forward to the big reveal! The wait is going to kill me!
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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by Flateric » Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:39 pm

Volcano, perhaps a hotend capable of unhear of higher temps, perhaps not limited? Also could incorporate feeding plastic pellets rather than filament only? Keeping them hot in a reserve like magma under the earth?
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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by Eaglezsoar » Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:07 pm

BenTheRighteous wrote:
joshuarowley42 wrote:Someone posting here is close enough to get a free Volcano upgrade! I will message you when it's out - but at that point you will know who you are anyway.. :P


0110-m-p wrote:Fingers crossed :D.

Chrissi wrote:Thank You!
....but will it work with the E3DV6 hot end I just received? =)

Get lost, losers! That free volcano is MINE and everyone knows it! lol ;) :lol:

In all seriousness, I think 0110 had the best guess. But I think I still have a chance. Definitely looking forward to the big reveal! The wait is going to kill me!

You and 0110 each have a chance but we must use one of our most hated virtue : Patience. Hard but we have no choice.

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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by joshuarowley42 » Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:07 am

Drawings are now available as promised - they will all go up on the documentation pages on our website soon..

Cyclops Assembly
Chimera Assembly
Cyclops/Chimera Cooler Block (Air)
Cyclops Heat Braek
Cyclops Heater Block (2in 1out Switching HotEnd Block)
Cyclops Nozzle (0.4mm)

The Chimera uses Kraken heat breaks, and v6 heater blocks and nozzles. Also it's Volcano compatible :P


0110 - On retractions, I am hesitant to give prescribed "maximums" because systems are just too variable - 2.5mm was right for me but I was only using a 400mm bowden tube!
Last edited by joshuarowley42 on Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by 0110-m-p » Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:11 am

joshuarowley42 wrote:Drawings are now available as promised - they will all go up on the documentation pages on our website soon..

Cyclops Assembly
Chimera Assembly
Cyclops/Chimera Cooler Block (Air)
Cyclops Heater Block (2in 1out Switching HotEnd Block)
Cyclops Nozzle (0.4mm)

The Chimera uses Kraken heat breaks, and v6 heater blocks and nozzles. Also it's Volcano compatible :P


0110 - On retractions, I am hesitant to give prescribed "maximums" because systems are just too variable - 2.5mm was right for me but I was only using a 400mm bowden tube!


Thanks Josh, understandable about your hesitation but figured it couldn't hurt to ask. I already have preliminary designs for a few different mounting solutions, but need to verify my assumptions about various dimensions that weren't on the assembly drawing.
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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by JFettig » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:06 pm

Mount I'm working on. It has some gap in the mount to prevent it from melting things(hope its enough!), includes a layer fan on back and shroud. I'm counting on being able to turn one of the heater blocks upside down so I can stick them both out front, otherwise I'll have to redesign for some clearance. Also has some zip tie mounts for wire management.
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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by Eaglezsoar » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:10 pm

That is a great looking mount you have designed! After the initial testing and mods are done I would sure be interested!

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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by JFettig » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:28 pm

Thanks :)

I'll probably wait to print it until my hot end shows up, Is there a ship date for these yet? I canceled my E3D V6 to get this not realizing it might not ship right away.

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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by Nylocke » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:31 pm

Don't forget you have to be able to get to the height adjustment screws. Not sure what the side with the mounting holes looks like, but it seems like it might be covered up.

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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by JFettig » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:45 pm

There are holes behind the layer fan for that, I can't imagine it'll be that big of a deal to pull the layer fan off to do that. I might even make the layer fan slide in like the original bracket is.

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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by Nylocke » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:47 pm

Just making sure you knew about em :D I've made stupid design mistakes so many times because I forget about things.

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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by SanjayM » Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:26 pm

Just wanted to link over to the Q&A I've been doing on G+, if you've any burning questions do ask over there!

https://plus.google.com/u/1/+SanjayMort ... LJ9k3fvZ9t

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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by 0110-m-p » Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:08 pm

Is there a drawing for the Cyclops thermal breaks?
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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by Polygonhell » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:07 am

JFettig wrote:Thanks :)

I'll probably wait to print it until my hot end shows up, Is there a ship date for these yet? I canceled my E3D V6 to get this not realizing it might not ship right away.


I think you'll have issues with the design as it's shown because of the proximity of the heater blocks and the printed platform. Unless you intend to make it out of something other than the usual plastics used for printing.

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Re: E3D has released new hotends!

Post by joshuarowley42 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:42 am

0110, Cheers for pointing that out, I forgot to add a link to it!

Have edited my original post to contain the link..

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