Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick Laser

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by 0110-m-p » Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:58 pm

I feel it is more about acceleration that it is speed. The most benefit I saw out of both upgrades was quality of sharp corners. Beyond that the trucks are much easier to adjust and roll WAY smoother than the stock carriages.
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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by lordbinky » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:09 pm

I was curious what people's thoughts on a urethane resin version of parts such as the aluminum trick-laser carriage trucks. Even the aluminum (shore 75 strength) and mineral filled (shore 85 strength) resins have a specific gravity of ~1.6 in comparison to aluminum's 2.7. This could be a significant difference in weight for the components for what could be trivial differences in the flex of the part. Just to be clear I don't want to market such an item, but I'm curious of the benefits.

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by Eaglezsoar » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:38 pm

lordbinky wrote:I was curious what people's thoughts on a urethane resin version of parts such as the aluminum trick-laser carriage trucks. Even the aluminum (shore 75 strength) and mineral filled (shore 85 strength) resins have a specific gravity of ~1.6 in comparison to aluminum's 2.7. This could be a significant difference in weight for the components for what could be trivial differences in the flex of the part. Just to be clear I don't want to market such an item, but I'm curious of the benefits.

The biggest benefit that I can see is the cost of manufacture would be less which, if passed to the consumer, would benefit them also.
I have no idea of the benefits you would see as far as the print, my guess is that the benefits would be minimal and possibly invisible.
If someone had sets of these on sale and I could buy the aluminum or the resin one, my bucks would probably go to the aluminum set simply
because it looks better, stronger and the first impression would be greater with the aluminum.

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by doctorgonzo » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:50 pm

I'm getting a set of trucks laser cut out of 3mm woven carbon fiber sheet this coming week. Despite the awesome material they are not as "trick" as Brian's, more boring shape because I am building an 8020 Kossel-ish, with the same tower spacing as the Rostock MAX and I need some flexibility for mounting mag balls and endstop screws and who knows what else.. I did however, end up using the OpenBuilds parts and man are they nice.

Instead of stacking 1mm washers, you can buy 9mm aluminum spacers for 6 of the wheels, and 3mm aluminum spacers for the three eccentrics. They are really cheap on the OpenBuilds web store - they are a nickel or a dime more than precision washers. Nice and clean.

Great idea Brian, I really appreciate your contributions to this community.

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by mhackney » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:16 pm

I've been running my TrickTrucks for a few weeks now - literally every day - and can say that I really like them. My printer is a lot smoother now (my old trucks were worn out) and they gave me almost an extra 3/4" of Z height. And the thumbscrew tower length adjusters are very easy to tweak - no more screwdrivers. These coupled with the carbon fiber arms and my Rostock V1 (an early one at that) is like a new machine and better.

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by Tincho85 » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:46 pm

Hello guys, I'm a bit confused about this:

"Increases your printer radius value aprox. +4mm, you must update your value in firmware."

THe default #define PRINTER_RADIUS is 198.25, but I thought this value was the distance between the center of the bed and the center of each T-Slots Rail.

EDIT: Picture deleted. Was wrong.

If I'm correct, why change this value? Because of the thickness of the Trick Trucks?
Last edited by Tincho85 on Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by mhackney » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:47 pm

Exactly, the delta arm connection point is closer to the tower with the TTs. That means your delta radius is larger. AND you get more Z height too.

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by mhackney » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:49 pm

Your diagram is incorrect. The printer radius is the point of the arm attachment to the carriages to the center, not the center of the tower.

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by Tincho85 » Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:51 pm

Ok.. thanks for clarifying it Michael.

But, how can you tell if +4mm is too much or too little when changing that number?
I mean, if I install the TrickTrucks and don't change the PRINTER RADIUS what would happen when printing? I want to understand it so I can properly calibrate it.

I'm not using TrickTrucks, my carriage plates are made of acrylic and I'm sure their thickness differ from the stock ones.
Last edited by Tincho85 on Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by Tincho85 » Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:16 pm

Oh boy... I think I'm mixing everything.

If I change the PRINTER_RADIUS it will chage the concave/convex shape of the bed right? If my memory is right, that's how the horizontal radius was calibrated for the V1.

DELTA_RADIUS (PRINTER_RADIUS-END_EFFECTOR_HORIZONTAL_OFFSET-CARRIAGE_HORIZONTAL_OFFSET)
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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by mhackney » Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:21 pm

Ah! Good question. You must do a recalibration after you do the upgrade.

Luckily, the "delta radius" is composed of multiple pieces including the printer radius:

DELTA_RADIUS = PRINTER_RADIUS - END_EFFECTOR_HORIZONTAL_OFFSET - CARRIAGE_HORIZONTAL_OFFSET

So the standard calibration described in Gene's manual will determine the new delta radius - you don't really need to know or care about the value for PRINTER_RADIUS.

Make sense?

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by mhackney » Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:23 pm

Technically (and I'm a bit of a stickler for accurate descriptions) changing the delta radius does not change the shape of the bed! It affects the math required to calculate the travel of the platform. Incorrect delta radius results in the platform traveling in a non-planar path - either convex or concave depending on if delta radius is larger or smaller than actual.

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by Tincho85 » Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:35 pm

Yes, I think I do. Thank you Michael.
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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by Motopreserve » Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:23 pm

Hey folks. Please forgive me if this has been covered, did a search and didn't see specifically what I was looking for.

I am building my first ROSTOCK V2 (first printer ever), and ordered the trick trucks right out of the gate. I am installing them during the initial build and realized that I don't have the ability to print the belt clamps that Brian linked on his site. Is this a show stopper? Should I install the stock cheapskates for printing these clamps and then make the swap?

I read ahead in the manual and don't see any obvious stock piece that would be added to the trick trucks to clamp these temporarily until I can print the parts. Should I rig up something to hold them temporarily? Running the trucks up and down clearly shows the belts loosening.

Thanks in advance for any advice/help.

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by mhackney » Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:46 pm

Great question! Chicken before the egg problem.

I would install the TT and simply use zip ties to tie off the belt. That should work fine. The other option - where are you located? I'm sure one of us could print you 3 and mail them to you. They are very small.

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by Motopreserve » Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:03 pm

Thanks so much MH. I already had them installed - so I was hoping for a quick/temp fix. I'll use the zip ties for now and they either print them myself if it works, or have my buddy print them for me on monday. I've gotten this build pretty far along, so I'm patience is wearing thin... :)

Appreciate the offer.

Any tips for setting up the tension correctly? Seems to be a bit of a black art. I can't tell if I've had them too tight or too loose. I'll get the belts on there securely, then it'll be time for the correct "feel" on the movement. First time with a 3D printer - so nothing to base it on. Tough to describe in written form I suppose.

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by mhackney » Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:06 pm

It is a bit of a black art. But, you want them tight enough to remove slack but don't stretch them so tight as to make a "ping" when plucked.

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by Motopreserve » Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:10 pm

Ah. I was hoping for an audio cue. At least I know what NOT to do, which is a huge help.

Will these trucks be moving fairly freely on the towers? Or should there be a bit of resistance? The way I have it now it will definitely take the motors to work a bit. Not super tight, but certainly not ready to fall if the belt isn't there.

Thanks again.

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by mhackney » Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:16 pm

Well, if properly tensioned the belt will "pluck" just a bit, quietly at low pitch!

They move very freely on the towers. You want to adjust them so they move freely but have no slop. If your motors work to move them they are way too tight. Without the belt attached, they should be able to all fast if let go t the top of the tower. But no slop!

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by Motopreserve » Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:26 pm

Perfect description! Thanks. I'll work on that tomorrow and see if the zip ties can get the belts tight.

So close....so very close :)

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by KAS » Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:51 pm

If you want to get all geeky, download a chord tuner for your phone. You can measure somewhat accurately and tension each belt close to each other.

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by Motopreserve » Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:54 pm

Already there. I'm an audio engineer by trade :)

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by Jimustanguitar » Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:00 pm

Motopreserve wrote:I am building my first ROSTOCK V2 (first printer ever), and ordered the trick trucks right out of the gate. I am installing them during the initial build and realized that I don't have the ability to print the belt clamps that Brian linked on his site. Is this a show stopper? Should I install the stock cheapskates for printing these clamps and then make the swap?


Like Michael said, you can either make your setup work with temporary clamps, have one of us or somebody on 3D Hubs make them for you, or you can have Shapeways make them.

http://www.shapeways.com/product/5UYTG3 ... d=55141359

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by Motopreserve » Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:02 pm

Thanks Jim (great avatar BTW).

I ended up rigging it with 2 short lengths of zip tie to act as a temp clamp. I've already gotten the calibration done as per the manual. And then I stumbled at the extrusion test. No life in the extruder stepper. But that's for another thread.... :)

One last question: is there a default depth for the thumbscrew to be installed when you begin calibration? I had them out a bit too far. But I'll wait to fix that for when I have the clamps.

Thanks for all your help guys.

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by Jimustanguitar » Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:12 pm

Motopreserve wrote:One last question: is there a default depth for the thumbscrew to be installed when you begin calibration? I had them out a bit too far. But I'll wait to fix that for when I have the clamps.


Generally you'll want the screws as far in as possible so that you maximize your build height... You have to have them screwed out just enough that the top roller on the trucks doesn't touch the frame.

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