Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick Laser

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by Mac The Knife » Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:51 pm

,,,,,taking notes for a future weekend mod,,,,,,
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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by jmpreuss » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:47 am

I received mine on Saturday. They are installed but I have not configured/tested them yet so this is just a few comments on the installation.

In general the install was pretty straight forward, much easier than putting together the cheapskates. The package contained no instructions, so viewing the video is required. I thought the video was pretty good, though I think it could have been better had it not been a silent film, some audio explaining could have been helpful. There was one issue, the video showed a spacer being placed in the wheel between the bearing, this part is not on the BOM and I hope isn't too necessary because I didn't have anything to use for that. The other thing is that getting the tightness correct was pretty touchy, the difference between too loose causing play and too tight so they don't roll was pretty small.

I report more after I do my recalibration.
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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by RegB » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:52 am

I got mine yesterday and "set to it".
First thing I noticed is that the stop screw doesn't reach the micro-switch - because the top wheel of the truck stops against the upper tower bracket.
I would need to back the screws out 1/2 inch or so, but they would fall out long before that.
I have a (July 2014 build date) V2 Max and I *THINK* it will need the trucks with the axle carrier at the very TOP of the truck, i.e. not with the wheel bolt boss "above" the axle carrier.

I wrote to Brain about it, I appreciate that it is holiday time so will TRY to be patient (-:

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by Jimustanguitar » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:40 am

The stop screw is just a plain old 6-32, so you ought to be able to use just about anything. I swear than mine had at least a 1" screw, so it wasn't a problem on my build.

As far as the spacers go, the BOM on the website shows 27 "precision shims". 9 of those 27 go between the two bearings in each wheel assembly. The other 2 (18 total) go between the aluminum spacer and the wheel assembly to give you the right clearance between the truck and the aluminum extrusion.

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by bvandiepenbos » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:32 pm

RegB wrote:I got mine yesterday and "set to it".
First thing I noticed is that the stop screw doesn't reach the micro-switch - because the top wheel of the truck stops against the upper tower bracket.
I would need to back the screws out 1/2 inch or so, but they would fall out long before that.
I have a (July 2014 build date) V2 Max and I *THINK* it will need the trucks with the axle carrier at the very TOP of the truck, i.e. not with the wheel bolt boss "above" the axle carrier.

I wrote to Brain about it, I appreciate that it is holiday time so will TRY to be patient (-:



RegB,
The final released production version of the Trick Truck works for v1 & v2 of the MAX and Orion.
There is only 1 version of the Trick Trucks.
yes, the end stop screws must be screwed out about 6mm so top wheel does not hit before end stop.
If your machine kit did not come with long enough screws a plain 6-32 thread x 1¼" long flat head phillips machine screw works just fine.
Sorry if this delays your update, if you have to go to the hardware to get longer screws.
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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by RegB » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:39 pm

OK, I'll hoof on down to the hardware store for longer end-stop screws.

I think I discovered a good sequence for assembly/adjustment.

1) Leave the axle carrier OFF.
2) Leave the top wheel very slack to get it around the post, put it around the post.
3) Tighten up the top wheel, adjust the eccentric WITHOUT the belt attached.
Tune this carefully. As another member stated, there is very little difference between too slack and too tight.
BTW, a 10mm open end wrench is the tool for this, an adjustable is too fat.
4) Slacken off that upper wheel again to move the truck away from the tower.
5) Mate the two ends of the belt together and thread them through the slot.
6) Guide the belt ends up and bolt the axle carrier on with lots of slack.
7) Pull the belt tight and tighten up the dual purpose axle carrier and belt clamp.

Hopefully you DID print the belt clamps before tearing your cheapskates off ? (-:

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by bvandiepenbos » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:10 pm

jmpreuss wrote:I received mine on Saturday. They are installed but I have not configured/tested them yet so this is just a few comments on the installation.

In general the install was pretty straight forward, much easier than putting together the cheapskates. The package contained no instructions, so viewing the video is required. I thought the video was pretty good, though I think it could have been better had it not been a silent film, some audio explaining could have been helpful. There was one issue, the video showed a spacer being placed in the wheel between the bearing, this part is not on the BOM and I hope isn't too necessary because I didn't have anything to use for that. The other thing is that getting the tightness correct was pretty touchy, the difference between too loose causing play and too tight so they don't roll was pretty small.

I report more after I do my recalibration.



jmpreuss,
Thank you for your feedback. Your right the video could use some annotation, I just have not had a chance to add it yet.
The BOM for Open Builds lists (27) precision shims 1 x 5 x 10 mm
You absolutely MUST put 1 of those shims in each wheel between the bearings. Or else the bearings will bind up when you tighten axle screws.
And 2 washer shims on each axle bolt between the truck plate and the stand offs.
http://www.tricklaser.com/media/OpenBui ... Trucks.pdf

Yes, you do not need to turn the eccentric adjusters very far to make a difference.
I suggest tightening the axle screw nut until you can just turn eccentric.
Then adjust until truck has no play, then tighten nut the rest of the way, then re-check truck play... readjust as needed.
Note: if you fasten the arm mount blocks after this adjustment, you should re-check wheel tightness, the arm mount blocks can change wheel tightness.
Ideally the eccentrics should be just tight enough to not have any truck play... excess tightness will increase rolling resistance and possibly make temporary flat spots in wheels.
With use any flat spots will smooth back out.

The arm axles are closer to extrusions with the Trick Trucks, so don't forget to increase the printer radius in your firmware. Measure the before and after distance of arm axle to extrusion, should be around 4 mm.
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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by jmpreuss » Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:19 pm

Maybe I'm missing something that is obvious to everyone else but this is what I see in the video.

Axis + shim + trick truck + shim + spacer + shim + bearing + shim + bearing

That is 4 shims per axis, there are 9 axis in total, 4x9 =36 not 27. What am I missing?
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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by RegB » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:43 pm

I counted that way too, I just left out the one under the axle bolt's head.

I assembled mine the other way around, i.e. axle bolt though bearing, spacer washer, bearing, 1/4 inch spacer, 2 spacer washers, truck plate, nut.
This way I can take the nut off and remove the whole thing as long as I keep the axle bolt in - no danger of the between bearings spacer washer slipping away
from center, etc.

As usual I flipped everything and built mine "left about right".
I tend to do that after watching someone do something, their left being my right.
It doesn't matter, all three of mine are the same way.

I'll fess up, I put the first one on the OUTSIDE of the X tower initially - gee, THAT didn't LOOK right (-:

For end stop screws I set the first one to just close the micro-switch with the top wheel JUST BARELY touching the tower's top bracket,
then backed it out one full turn (1/32 ~= 3 thou)
Then I measured how high that was above the top of the truck and set the other two to within a thou of that.
I measured 0.535 inches from top of screw head to top of truck plate, YMMV.
HOPEFULLY starting with them all the same will save a bit of time when I calibrate/level.
Last edited by RegB on Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by bvandiepenbos » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:01 pm

jmpreuss wrote:Maybe I'm missing something that is obvious to everyone else but this is what I see in the video.

Axis + shim + trick truck + shim + spacer + shim + bearing + shim + bearing

That is 4 shims per axis, there are 9 axis in total, 4x9 =36 not 27. What am I missing?



Hey All,
You do not have to put a precision shim washer under the head of the bolt like I did in video, so 27 precision shim washers is the correct amount. Sorry for the confusion.
If you prefer, a regular plain washer can be put under screw heads, and even under nuts.
Washers from your local hardware store will be fine.

Note: if you don't use washer under head of screws make sure the underside of bolt head contacts truck fully. The screws are designed to be a fairly close fit and sometimes the screw head does not seat fully flat.

It would be best to at least put a washer under bolt head of eccentric cam location to make adjustment smoother. Regular washers have a sharp edge side and a smooth side, put smooth side against truck.
I will often stack two washers with sharp sides facing each other.


RegB,
If you put the nuts on other side make sure you use washer under nut, else I do not think the eccentrics will adjust smoothly.
Also, check that the arms don't catch on the nut and bolt sticking out that way. Probably will be fine.
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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by jmpreuss » Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:20 am

Fortunately I was able to remove the axis without have to remove the arms so moving the spacer from the outside of the truck to between the bearings was a fairly painless process. Definitely made a difference in the ease of the adjusting the tightness of the axis.
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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by Jimustanguitar » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:54 pm

Re precision shims - To summarize:

It's critical to put 1 between the bearings in each wheel.
You also need 2 of them + the aluminum spacer (or eccentric) between the truck plate and the wheel to clear the extrusion.
So 3 per axle gives you the 27 on the BOM.

If you want to put washers under the axle bolt, under the nut, etc you can use whatever you'd like.
It's not important for the other washers to be a precision tolerance, so it would be silly to order them that way from OpenBuilds. That's why they're not on the BOM.

Hope that helps clarify. You only NEED 27, but you can certainly add more if you like. There's isn't a right or wrong way to do it as long as you have the precision ones in the critical places.

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by Earthbound » Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:39 am

Just ordered a set of these for Apollo, my RMV2. It has been running well but now that the Christmas present production crunch is over I want to make a few improvements. It is going to get a better power supply, additional layer fans, and the Trick Trucks.
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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by Eaglezsoar » Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:10 am

Earthbound wrote:Just ordered a set of these for Apollo, my RMV2. It has been running well but now that the Christmas present production crunch is over I want to make a few improvements. It is going to get a better power supply, additional layer fans, and the Trick Trucks.


Those all sound like excellent improvements, let us know the results of the upgrades.

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by mhackney » Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:16 pm

I also ordered a set of Trick Trucks and the carbon rod arms. After almost a year of running with the magnetic rod ends and a Kraken, I finally had to slow down quite a bit or I'd get pop-offs or odd artifacts in the print that were symptomatic of an impending pop-off. A Kraken with water tubes, 4 Bowdens, 4 sets of wiring and a part cooling fan is a lot of mass to move around fast. I love the Kraken but need more security so I'm trying these arms and trucks. I have a similar setup on one of my mini Kossels and have been very happy with the print Z registration and overall quality.

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by jmpreuss » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:07 pm

So I have been running these a bit so I think I have enough info for an early review.

First is I don't think there is anything really negative to say about these things. Instructions are still a work in progress and it would be nice if it was sold as a complete kit so one didn't have to pay shipping twice but those are minor details.

These are a much more elegant solution than the stock cheapskates. Much easier to install and adjust. They are very quiet and smooth. My cheapskates could groan a bit on fast moves but no noise from these. They are very solid and while I don't have comparison prints I would presume if anything you will get better prints.

At the end of the day the question is are they worth the cost (about $120 after all parts and shipping). If I were starting my build from scratch today I would purchase them just to save me the aggravation of dealing with the cheapskates but I tend to value my time very highly. It probably won't make a miraculous difference in you print quality but they look great and perform very nicely. A very nicely done upgrade.
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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by 0110-m-p » Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:43 am

So I've been running the trick trucks for about a week now and I absolutely love them. They are super easy to adjust (easily the biggest benefit to this design in my eyes) and really make the machine look more polished.

I do agree with jmpreuss though that the print quality at my standard speeds probably isn't much if any better, but am hopeful that the lower mass will improve corners when printing at higher speeds.

One thing to look out for when installing these though is your belt length. If you are like me and trimmed your belts pretty short on the stock carriages, then you are going to have a lot of trouble installing these and getting enough belt under the clamp.

Image

Image

Thanks again for designing these Brian.
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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by bvandiepenbos » Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:22 am

Thanks 0110-m-p for your feedback.


btw, everybody,
Some machines ship with very short screws for endstop adjusters, they do not have enough length to activate endstop switch before top wheel hits frame.
Another user pointed out that he re-used the stock screws from u-mounts as longer endstop screws, worked for him but it does not give much adjustment or thread engagement.
Or the long screws from cheapskate axles work better.

The screws are 6-32 thread, ideal length is 1-1/4" -flat head phillips
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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by mhackney » Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:37 am

Brian, the photos on your website show a great alternative - thumbscrews! Where did you find those?

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by Tonkabot » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:44 am

I just realized that I need to spend $50 more bucks at openbuilds to get the rest of the stuff needed for the trick trucks. :(

I see they are OUT of the 1/4 eccentric and only have 6mm ones. Can I use the 6mm?

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by bvandiepenbos » Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:17 pm

mhackney wrote:Brian, the photos on your website show a great alternative - thumbscrews! Where did you find those?


yes the thumbscrews work well, that is what I use on my builds.
They are from McMaster Carr

Those are something I have been meaning to get on Trick Laser for purchase... with the addition of engraved dial marks on top at .1 mm increments. The marks make it a bit easier to tweak bed leveling instead of eyeballing amount to turn screws and having to remember how far 1 turn gets you.
1/4 turn = .2 mm

I know you can look at the phillips screw + to gauge how far you turn, but I am just a bit "Alpha-Romeo" about such things. ;)
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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by bvandiepenbos » Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:25 pm

Tonkabot wrote:I just realized that I need to spend $50 more bucks at openbuilds to get the rest of the stuff needed for the trick trucks. :(

I see they are OUT of the 1/4 eccentric and only have 6mm ones. Can I use the 6mm?



you could use the 6mm IF you bought matching 6mm spacer for other 6 wheels instead of the 1/4" spacers that come with the wheel 'kit'.
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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by mhackney » Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:32 pm

I thought the 6mm referred to the hole diameter in the eccentric? It's the length of the eccentric? Opps, I guess I need to order some 6mm spacers then.

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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by bvandiepenbos » Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:15 pm

mhackney wrote:I thought the 6mm referred to the hole diameter in the eccentric? It's the length of the eccentric? Opps, I guess I need to order some 6mm spacers then.


the eccentrics are available in 2 lengths 1/4" & 6mm, you need spacer length to match whichever length eccentrics you get.
I use the 1/4" long eccentrics because the spacers that come with wheel "kit" are 1/4" long.

If the wheel "kits" are out of stock you can order all the pieces separate.

the hole is 5mm for the M5 axle screws.


clear as mud?
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Re: Trick Trucks - Lightweight Aluminum Carriages by Trick L

Post by Tonkabot » Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:38 pm

mhackney wrote:Brian, the photos on your website show a great alternative - thumbscrews! Where did you find those?


I was looking at tricklaser.com, and could not find the photos you speak of. can you provide me a link so I know what your talking about?
I am in the middle of my tricklaser upgrades and I might want to do that too...

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