Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

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RP Iron Man
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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by RP Iron Man » Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:58 pm

Hey guys,

We're almost half way there! Thanks to all of the contributors.

I just sent out a prototype to RepRap Core Developer "Sublime" (Brad M, Designer of Tantillus 3D printer) so he is going to do a review in the next few days. I am working on getting a prototype out to Richard Horne as well so stay tuned!
I am also getting together the prepayment to begin production for the Early Bird Prometheus Kits. The production should begin on Monday next week so I can realistically expect to start shipping out kits by mid May.

So what are you waiting for! Jump on board and contribute to this campaign and you will receive your hot end before June. A new Prometheus Hot End will make your printer very happy.

Keep on sharing this campaign so we can get this project fully funded!

Keep on printing :-)

Eric
**Intuitive MULTI-FILAMENT 3D Printing** -- Successfully Funded on Kickstarter!

I designed the Prometheus V2 Customizable All-Metal Hot End. Buy online
Prometheus Hot End discussion thread

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by joecnc2006 » Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:31 pm

That's great, Good thing you did not give up on it.

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by bvandiepenbos » Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:16 pm

Great design you have there RP Iron Man
I just contributed to your campaign.
Can't wait to get my hands on one to test.
~*Brian V.

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by RP Iron Man » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:00 am

Thanks for the support guys! :)

Things started off slow but now I am working hard on the marketing all over social media, etc... I am getting some notable people to test it and do some reviews to generate more contributors. Marketing is much more important than I initially thought, but I am slowly getting the hang of it! This project will definitely be a success and it is thanks to everyone who provided support, advice, and encouragement along the way. This is a really great hot end design and the 3d printing community will benefit a lot from it.

Eric
**Intuitive MULTI-FILAMENT 3D Printing** -- Successfully Funded on Kickstarter!

I designed the Prometheus V2 Customizable All-Metal Hot End. Buy online
Prometheus Hot End discussion thread

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by bvandiepenbos » Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:27 pm

Eric,
I do have a suggestion for your design...
It all looks very professional and well thought out, except for the hex nuts, how can I say this, uhmmm they are just ugly and look out of place on such a sweet design.
My idea is to make threaded aluminum rings with a few small side holes for tightening, or slots for a spanner wrench.
Just a observation, do not be offended, you have a great design.

Looking forward to getting mine.
~*Brian V.

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MAX METAL Rostock MAX Printer Frame
NEMESIS Air Delta v1 & v2 -Aluminum delta printers
Rostock MAX "KITT" - Tri-Force Frame
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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by RP Iron Man » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:23 pm

Hey Brian,

Don't worry, no offense taken, I see what you mean...

The hex nuts are an economical way of adding customizability to the design. I agree that they are not the most attractive solution, but they are really the only simple economical solution I have. I considered getting custom hex nuts or rings machined and polished to look nice like the rest of the parts, but it would just add way to much to the cost of each kit. Aluminium hex nuts are standard hardware so they are MUCH cheaper than machining custom parts (even if they are really simply designed).

By using hex nuts I was able to keep the total price relatively low. There was a trade-off involved here, so I had to choose the more economical solution over the more aesthetically pleasing one. I know, it is sad to see such beautifully machined parts sitting next to ugly hex nuts, but there is no easy way around this :( I am going to use the nicest hex nuts I can find, but they still won't be perfectly polished.

Anyway, once you start feeding plastic through it you won't care about the looks because it will print so well! :)

Eric
**Intuitive MULTI-FILAMENT 3D Printing** -- Successfully Funded on Kickstarter!

I designed the Prometheus V2 Customizable All-Metal Hot End. Buy online
Prometheus Hot End discussion thread

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by Holy1 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:05 pm

Novice Orion user here. What would the advantage be to switch to your hot end? The one on my machine works well. Is it so one could reach higher temps for different filament? I don't plan on using anything more than pla or abs.
Orion to Cartesian viewtopic.php?f=59&t=7808

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by Eaglezsoar » Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:03 pm

Holy1 wrote:Novice Orion user here. What would the advantage be to switch to your hot end? The one on my machine works well. Is it so one could reach higher temps for different filament? I don't plan on using anything more than pla or abs.

If you never plan on using anything besides ABS or PLA and you are happy with the default hotend then the all metal hotend would not benefit you.
You will be forever locked to the low temperature filaments is the biggest disadvantage.
“ Do Not Regret Growing Older. It is a Privilege Denied to Many. ”

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by Renha » Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:17 am

Will it be easy to attach that hot-end to Rostock MAX v.2, if I'm completely noobish? Already make a contribution just now, cause what i have read sounds very good, but question is still question
3D printing is magic!

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by Eaglezsoar » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:05 am

Renha wrote:Will it be easy to attach that hot-end to Rostock MAX v.2, if I'm completely noobish? Already make a contribution just now, cause what i have read sounds very good, but question is still question

I would not call changing hotends on a normal Rostock Max as easy, I would call it moderate dificulty. You have to disconnect the old hotend which can be easy or difficult dependent on whether or not you used connectors
on the wires. Once you get the old one out, the new one will not use the old mounting system in most cases so you will need the parts to mount the new hotend, you will need to put connectors on the new hotend that match
what you used for the old hotend. It can be a moderately difficult install but I would not call it easy. The more experienced you are the easier it becomes for you because you know exactly what is required to mount the new
hotend and you know exactly what connectors are required and you have everything you need available before you start the change out. I would not attempt to change a hotend without knowing exactly what I would need to
mount the new hotend. After you do get the new hotend mounted you would need to run a PID tuning on it before printing with it.
“ Do Not Regret Growing Older. It is a Privilege Denied to Many. ”

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by RP Iron Man » Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:12 pm

Eaglezsoar wrote:
Holy1 wrote:Novice Orion user here. What would the advantage be to switch to your hot end? The one on my machine works well. Is it so one could reach higher temps for different filament? I don't plan on using anything more than pla or abs.

If you never plan on using anything besides ABS or PLA and you are happy with the default hotend then the all metal hotend would not benefit you.
You will be forever locked to the low temperature filaments is the biggest disadvantage.


The major advantage of my all-metal hot end is that you will be able to print at much higher temperatures. You may find that you want to start experimenting with Polycarbonate and Nylon, and in the future the customizabiliy of my hot end may be useful to you. If you only ever plan on using ABS and PLA, then I can honestly say that your current hot end is probably ok. However, if you have a J-Head style hot end you there is always the risk of catastrophic failure in the case of a melt-down if your thermistor falls out, etc... This happened with my old J-Head and was one of the reasons I designed this hot end. If you want a durable all-in-one solution that does it all, then my Prometheus hot end would be my recommendation :)

I hope this gives you enough information to make the best decision for your 3D printing needs. If you are interested, I would really appreciate your support!

Thanks,
Eric
**Intuitive MULTI-FILAMENT 3D Printing** -- Successfully Funded on Kickstarter!

I designed the Prometheus V2 Customizable All-Metal Hot End. Buy online
Prometheus Hot End discussion thread

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by RP Iron Man » Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:26 pm

Eaglezsoar wrote:
Renha wrote:Will it be easy to attach that hot-end to Rostock MAX v.2, if I'm completely noobish? Already make a contribution just now, cause what i have read sounds very good, but question is still question

I would not call changing hotends on a normal Rostock Max as easy, I would call it moderate dificulty. You have to disconnect the old hotend which can be easy or difficult dependent on whether or not you used connectors
on the wires. Once you get the old one out, the new one will not use the old mounting system in most cases so you will need the parts to mount the new hotend, you will need to put connectors on the new hotend that match
what you used for the old hotend. It can be a moderately difficult install but I would not call it easy. The more experienced you are the easier it becomes for you because you know exactly what is required to mount the new
hotend and you know exactly what connectors are required and you have everything you need available before you start the change out. I would not attempt to change a hotend without knowing exactly what I would need to
mount the new hotend. After you do get the new hotend mounted you would need to run a PID tuning on it before printing with it.


Thanks for chiming in here Eaglezsoar :)

I actually don't have a Rostock V2 so I am not sure how difficult this would be. However, just so you know, my hot end uses the standard J-Head style groove mounting. Before you remove your old hot end, you should look at how you are going to mount the Prometheus hot end on your printer. You should first look on Thingiverse for a printable groove mountplate that fits the hot end. I did a quick search and I found this which would probably work:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:55024

You would need to make sure the mounting holes on the end effector match the holes on the groove mount plate that you printed, and then you need to make sure you can mount it securely with fasteners. If the holes don't match then you could simply drill new holes using the printed groove mount plate as a template.

I hope this helps. Just remember to have a complete plan for mounting my hot end before you take anything apart! I don't want you to take everything apart and then realize that you have to print a part to get it to work.

Thanks for the support! If you have any more questions just ask and I will do my best to answer them :)

Eric
**Intuitive MULTI-FILAMENT 3D Printing** -- Successfully Funded on Kickstarter!

I designed the Prometheus V2 Customizable All-Metal Hot End. Buy online
Prometheus Hot End discussion thread

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by Eaglezsoar » Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:07 pm

RP Iron Man, we are in complete agreement. That is what I was saying in my message about the difficulty in changing Hotends.
You must have a way to mount it before taking out the old one. Which connectors are needed is also important.
Best of luck in your campaign.
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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by RP Iron Man » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:12 pm

Hey guys,

The campaign is now 60% funded! Thanks to the latest contributors.

I have a few updates for everyone. I recently sent out a prototype to RepRap Core Developer "Sublime" (Brad M, Designer of Tantillus 3D printer) and yesterday I sent out another prototype to Michael Zenner (aka "ZennmasterM") from 3D Hacker for a review. Michael Zenner has done many reviews on hot ends so stay tuned for his review of the Prometheus Hot End prototype!

These reviews should be up in the next week. I am also still trying to get in contact with Richard Horne "RichRap" about doing a review of Prometheus.

In other news, Prometheus Early Bird production has commenced! I sent the prepayment for production to my manufacturer and they are preparing to start machining the parts. I expect to be shipping by mid May so grab your Early Bird kit today!

There is a lot going on so I am going to try to keep everyone informed. Spread the word so we can put this funding goal behind us!

Happy printing!

Eric
**Intuitive MULTI-FILAMENT 3D Printing** -- Successfully Funded on Kickstarter!

I designed the Prometheus V2 Customizable All-Metal Hot End. Buy online
Prometheus Hot End discussion thread

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by bdjohns1 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:30 pm

RP Iron Man wrote:
I actually don't have a Rostock V2 so I am not sure how difficult this would be. However, just so you know, my hot end uses the standard J-Head style groove mounting. Before you remove your old hot end, you should look at how you are going to mount the Prometheus hot end on your printer. You should first look on Thingiverse for a printable groove mountplate that fits the hot end. I did a quick search and I found this which would probably work:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:55024

You would need to make sure the mounting holes on the end effector match the holes on the groove mount plate that you printed, and then you need to make sure you can mount it securely with fasteners. If the holes don't match then you could simply drill new holes using the printed groove mount plate as a template.



Here's a printable part for the e3d hotend, which is also groove-mount. This one was designed by mhackney for the Rostock Max v1 effector - I'd be surprised if the v2 effector is different.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:237847

Easy way to check - measure the distance between the mounting holes on opposite sides - is the center-center distance of the holes at 50mm? Then it's the same as the v1, and this printed part should do the trick.

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by Renha » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:52 pm

Thank for replies all of you, that information would be very useful in near (i hope so) future
3D printing is magic!

Sorry my engrish :-/ you could PM me in Russian.

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by McSlappy » Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:16 pm

I'll probably model a mount for the Prometheus (unless someone else beats me to it :) ) sometime soon. I just redid the e3d mount (fine tuning it now) which adds a fourth leg support to allow an extra long machine screw to stuck up through the mount. It gives you something to zip tie all the cables to.

I'll post these soon.
I loved my Rostock so much I now sell them in Oz :)

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by RP Iron Man » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:37 pm

McSlappy wrote:I'll probably model a mount for the Prometheus (unless someone else beats me to it :) ) sometime soon. I just redid the e3d mount (fine tuning it now) which adds a fourth leg support to allow an extra long machine screw to stuck up through the mount. It gives you something to zip tie all the cables to.

I'll post these soon.


That would be great :)

BUT before you go about working on this wait until I get up the production drawings! There are a few VERY minor changes to the mounting dimensions so that the production version will have the exact groove mount dimensions as the J-Head. I will try to get these latest drawings up on my Flickr account tomorrow. It will be a standard 4.6mm groove mount exactly like the MKV J-Head. I don't know if this will affect your drawings, but I thought I should mention it.

@Renha

Prometheus production has begun so it should be sooner rather than later :)

Eric
**Intuitive MULTI-FILAMENT 3D Printing** -- Successfully Funded on Kickstarter!

I designed the Prometheus V2 Customizable All-Metal Hot End. Buy online
Prometheus Hot End discussion thread

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by McSlappy » Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:45 am

Ok great, No problems. I'm doing some modeling today and tomorrow so maybe I'll just add it to the list!
I loved my Rostock so much I now sell them in Oz :)

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by RP Iron Man » Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:02 pm

**Intuitive MULTI-FILAMENT 3D Printing** -- Successfully Funded on Kickstarter!

I designed the Prometheus V2 Customizable All-Metal Hot End. Buy online
Prometheus Hot End discussion thread

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by Glacian22 » Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:07 pm

Welp, I caved and ordered one...realized I was getting really annoyed with my E3D not being able to print in PLA.

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by RP Iron Man » Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:08 pm

Thanks for the support! You put my campaign over $2000 funded :)

Curious, what problems are you having printing PLA with your E3D?

Eric
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I designed the Prometheus V2 Customizable All-Metal Hot End. Buy online
Prometheus Hot End discussion thread

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by Glacian22 » Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:15 pm

PLA just randomly jams it sometimes, apparently it's a luck of the draw thing...some people can run PLA on their E3D just fine, others can't. I've tried different rolls of PLA, temperatures, retraction speeds, and it's still not reliable. Following advice, I can get it running somewhat okay by lowering retraction to 30mm/s, and lubing the filament with vegetable oil. But it still snags sometimes, which is a shame because it'll print ABS and nylon perfectly.

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by Renha » Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:03 pm

RP Iron Man, i dont think i fully understand Groove mount principle, some wikis doesnt help me too. So, please, could you (or anybody else) explain me that thing: when ill get Prometheus, ill need only the thing like that http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:237847 for mounting? What does mean the next sentence on indiegogo page:
and if you select a Groove Mount Plate as an add-on it will ship with your Prometheus (1.75mm or 3mm) perk.

I havent seen any add-ons anywhere :( or i dont need it at all?

Thank you for your work again, the pictures are great
3D printing is magic!

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Re: Prometheus Hot End: Customizable All Metal Hot End!

Post by RP Iron Man » Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:05 pm

@Glacian22

I think these E3D PLA related issues are due to the lack of polishing on the SS Heat Break.

The E3D heat breaks are reamed on a high precision CNC which gives a pretty decent surface finish. However, no matter how precise the CNC is, you are still reaming SS so it is very easy to get imperfections in the surface. In fact, you can test this by taking a paper clip (or another thin piece of metal) and sliding it down the inside of the tube. You will find that there are places where it catches a little. This is due to imperfections in the surface and if one of these imperfections happens to be at the thermal break, the friction is going to be significantly higher. I am sure that Sanjay gets his manufacturer to switch out the reaming bit pretty frequently to minimize these imperfections, but they cannot be completely eliminated.

You probably got an unlucky E3D which had one too many imperfections in the short thermal break part of SS heat break. That's why I think the extra polishing on my 1-piece nozzles is so significant. It is a bit overkill, but with so many different extruder configurations it is a good idea to have a margin for error.

Eric
**Intuitive MULTI-FILAMENT 3D Printing** -- Successfully Funded on Kickstarter!

I designed the Prometheus V2 Customizable All-Metal Hot End. Buy online
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