Pico Hot-End

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dpmacri
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Pico Hot-End

Post by dpmacri » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:30 am

The B3 Innovations Pico Hot-End kickstarter just went live (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/b3innovations/pico-all-metal-hotend-for-reprap-3d-printers). Just curious if anyone has been watching this hot-end. I like the thin design for being able to do dual (or triple eventually) all-metal hot-ends on my Rostock MAX. Not sure if the passive cooling will suffice with two or three in close proximity, though. Anyone have any thoughts or further insight?

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Re: Pico Hot-End

Post by Eaglezsoar » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:58 am

dpmacri wrote:The B3 Innovations Pico Hot-End kickstarter just went live (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/b3innovations/pico-all-metal-hotend-for-reprap-3d-printers). Just curious if anyone has been watching this hot-end. I like the thin design for being able to do dual (or triple eventually) all-metal hot-ends on my Rostock MAX. Not sure if the passive cooling will suffice with two or three in close proximity, though. Anyone have any thoughts or further insight?


It is a nice looking hot end however I do not like the length of the melt chamber. That makes me wonder how it would be for PLA.
Something like this I would rather have it out and tested before I would consider purchase.

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Re: Pico Hot-End

Post by Nylocke » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:45 pm

It looks really nice and professional, and the thermistor placing is pretty nice, though Eagle is right, that is a really big melting chamber, no wonder 3mm PLA has "1.5 star rating" (whatever thats supposed to mean). if they shortened the melt zone to around half its length I think they could get better results with PLA....

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Re: Pico Hot-End

Post by cope413 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:17 pm

if you note the text, it says "some materials require active cooling"... *cough* PLA *cough*
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Re: Pico Hot-End

Post by 0110-m-p » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:28 pm

Is it the length:width ratio that is an issue or total melt chamber volume?
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Re: Pico Hot-End

Post by int2str » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:35 pm

0110-m-p wrote:Is it the length:width ratio that is an issue or total melt chamber volume?


*** NOOB HERE - Take this for what it's worth.... ***

I think total length/volume is the issue. Melting filament on a longer area like that, reduces your ability to retract filament and control the extrusion by quite a bit. In fact E3D prides itself in having a very short transition.

From their site:
....we have reduced the distance in which the plastic transitions from ambient temperatures to extrusion temperatures to 2mm. An extremely short transition from cold filament to molten plastic provides highly precise extrusion with little extrusion force.


The Pico looks very good, but I'm with others - I'd like to see it tried and tested by the DIY community first before I'd commit $$$.

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Re: Pico Hot-End

Post by 0110-m-p » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:37 pm

If it is the total volume issue then maybe it is more of an optical illusion than anything else since the hot end is supposed to be very small.
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Re: Pico Hot-End

Post by Nylocke » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:44 pm

I was assuming its heat sink about the same diameter as the E3D heat sink, if not then it may be fine. it looks pretty large though... length wise I was saying, it looks like a large area for it to transition from solid to melted...

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Re: Pico Hot-End

Post by 0110-m-p » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:50 pm

If you compare the E3D and Pico groove mount diameters in pictures, it seems like the E3D cooling fin diameter is much larger than the Pico. If the groove mounts diameters are significantly different then who knows.

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Re: Pico Hot-End

Post by Eaglezsoar » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:00 pm

I would love to know where they are getting those plastic bowden adapters. Can't find them anywhere.

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Re: Pico Hot-End

Post by int2str » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:01 pm

0110-m-p wrote:If it is the total volume issue then maybe it is more of an optical illusion than anything else since the hot end is supposed to be very small.


It covers the whole heating element, so I'd suspect at least 10-15mm total heated height. If you melt (or at least soften) that much filament, retraction is probably near impossible.

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Re: Pico Hot-End

Post by dpmacri » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:48 pm

Everyone, thanks for the input. Give what's been said, I'm concerned about the heat zone now :-P To answer a few of the questions on size, they have this picture on their website which indicates it's about as big as a AA battery: Image. And the dimensions according to the kickstarter page are 56mm high (including nozzle) and 14.3mm in diameter. Assuming the image off the temperature is accurate, then that would say there is about 9mm from 260C to 224.3C region. I suppose that would mean that the heat zone (when printing at temperatures lower than 260C) could be just a few mm, but I suspect it's still larger than the E3D.

I still do like the small diameter, though :-D

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Re: Pico Hot-End

Post by Nylocke » Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:40 pm

No doubt that the E3D is a rather large hot end, not quite as fat as the Buda, but definitely fairly large. I would love to try a few of these out, maybe if I replaced my E3D on my ultimaker with 2 of these I could keep my build area size....

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Re: Pico Hot-End

Post by Nylocke » Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:19 pm

The thing I'm wondering about is the Pico's bowden compatibility. I would love to get 2 of them for my ultimaker to replace the E3D on it (hopefully get more build height (E3D makes me loose 20 potential mm of height, and 4mm of depth) and dual extrusion (E3D is too big to put 2 on unless I wanna loose more build height), but I really wonder if they might be selling a bowden version like E3D has possibly...

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Re: Pico Hot-End

Post by SanjayM » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:43 pm

Eaglezsoar:
We get them in bulk from a leader in the pneumatics industry - we then modify them to our specification, and then they go on the product.

We will get them on the site asap for people to buy - expect a price of around £2.50 with it already modified by us.

I'm not going to talk about the B3 design, but I don't think it's appropriate for me (a competitor) to try and comment on a forum like this to try and gain business. So I won't respond questions about how I think it will perform. I just don't think it would be polite or an appropriate use of a this forum. Besides, competition is good and moves us all forwards.

We are really concentrating on getting v6 as compact as possible, and neater and easier to maintain/assemble too. I think you'll guys will be pleased with it!

In other news - a E3Dv5 Hotend is £35.20 in our christmas sale right now - http://e3d-online.com/index.php?route=common/home (I know this is fairly blatant advertisement, but I think its pretty relevant to peoples interests here. If it's not cool let me know and I'll rectify that.

Regards,
Sanjay

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Re: Pico Hot-End

Post by dpmacri » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:54 pm

SanjayM wrote:Eaglezsoar:
We get them in bulk from a leader in the pneumatics industry - we then modify them to our specification, and then they go on the product.

We will get them on the site asap for people to buy - expect a price of around £2.50 with it already modified by us.

I'm not going to talk about the B3 design, but I don't think it's appropriate for me (a competitor) to try and comment on a forum like this to try and gain business. So I won't respond questions about how I think it will perform. I just don't think it would be polite or an appropriate use of a this forum. Besides, competition is good and moves us all forwards.

We are really concentrating on getting v6 as compact as possible, and neater and easier to maintain/assemble too. I think you'll guys will be pleased with it!

In other news - a E3Dv5 Hotend is £35.20 in our christmas sale right now - http://e3d-online.com/index.php?route=common/home (I know this is fairly blatant advertisement, but I think its pretty relevant to peoples interests here. If it's not cool let me know and I'll rectify that.

Regards,
Sanjay


Sanjay,

What a refreshing dose of integrity! I have one E3D V5 already, and if my Christmas wish comes true (thanks in-laws :-)), I'll be getting another soon :-D. Your gentlemanly post will keep me as a customer ;-)

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