E3D Titan on E3D V6?

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Span24
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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Span24 » Sun May 01, 2016 4:11 pm

NICE! What is the length of the lower bowden tube? I see two 'holes', one near the y-axis bungee and one near the z-axis bungee. Which was meant for the wiring to pass through and whats the purpose of the other?

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by kraegar » Sun May 01, 2016 7:10 pm

Version where the tension adjustment is accessible is done (the offset isn't perfect on it, but it's accessible), printed and succesfully tested.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1533835

Hope it helps others!

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by kraegar » Sun May 01, 2016 7:12 pm

Span24 wrote:NICE! What is the length of the lower bowden tube? I see two 'holes', one near the y-axis bungee and one near the z-axis bungee. Which was meant for the wiring to pass through and whats the purpose of the other?

Michael


The round hole in the front was for the wiring to pass through, the one in the back was going to be similar, for the motor's wires, but that didn't seem ideal. I left it there, though.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by kraegar » Sun May 01, 2016 7:13 pm

Oh, the bowden tube I used was 7", so there's about 4" after accounting for the length that's in the v6, and what's in the Titan. I'd read that was about the right length, so went with it.

My retracts are now at 1mm, and I'm getting no stringing at all. The printer is also much, much quieter.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Span24 » Sun May 01, 2016 7:17 pm

kraegar wrote:My retracts are now at 1mm, and I'm getting no stringing at all. The printer is also much, much quieter.


Nice!!!

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Windshadow » Sun May 01, 2016 10:08 pm

great fast and functional design Kraegar
I might give it a try with my Bond Tech (as yet it is pushing ninja flex just fine for me and that the hump that I could not conquer with the ezstruder) if i run into any problems

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by kraegar » Mon May 02, 2016 8:20 am

I've placed an updated version out on thingiverse. I closed off the rear opening near the offset mount point, and widened the opening for the tension adjustment by 1mm.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by jtrezzo » Mon May 02, 2016 7:02 pm

Glad to have stumbled across this because I have been considering the same thing. I ordered the exact same stepper motor. I am attempting to design a mount for direct drive right on the e3D v6, but I am not an expert at 3D design and am finding it hard to do without the parts in hand. If I actually get it installed and print quality turns out to be worse, I will go the route of the air struder.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by kraegar » Mon May 02, 2016 8:41 pm

The titan is designed to fit right onto the v6 as a direct drive, shouldn't be any parts needed but the 2mm spacer between the titan and the stepper. Still, I wouldn't add the mass to the effector.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Span24 » Mon May 02, 2016 9:12 pm

kraegar wrote:The titan is designed to fit right onto the v6 as a direct drive, shouldn't be any parts needed but the 2mm spacer between the titan and the stepper. Still, I wouldn't add the mass to the effector.


The mass effect on a direct drive mounted V6/titan was mentioned earlier. Although the stock 42x42x42mm stepper (weighing in at over 375g ) would almost certainly test the Delta if mounted directly to the Titan/V6 I would really like to test a stepper like the 42x42x20 (weighing less than 150g) in the same setup.

Thoughts?

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by jtrezzo » Mon May 02, 2016 10:19 pm

I've looked into it a bit more and am thinking the air struder is probably a better bet and am going that route. It seems much easier to implement and I can't imagine 4 extra inches of bowden tube between the air struder and v6 would really make that big of a difference. I'd imagine that the added weight would overshadow any gain from having it be direct drive. I do still plan to use the pancake stepper motor for the airstruding though as it seems it should be enough torque with the Titan. Any thoughts?

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by jtrezzo » Mon May 02, 2016 11:11 pm

Span24 wrote:
kraegar wrote:The titan is designed to fit right onto the v6 as a direct drive, shouldn't be any parts needed but the 2mm spacer between the titan and the stepper. Still, I wouldn't add the mass to the effector.


The mass effect on a direct drive mounted V6/titan was mentioned earlier. Although the stock 42x42x42mm stepper (weighing in at over 375g ) would almost certainly test the Delta if mounted directly to the Titan/V6 I would really like to test a stepper like the 42x42x20 (weighing less than 150g) in the same setup.

Thoughts?

Michael


I am thinking it is doable but question the benefit as opposed to the air struder (see post above). I think the Titan is about 60g and say another 20g for a printed mount, you're looking at an extra 230g roughly. I am struggling to create a good design to do it properly, but that could just be my lack of 3D design experience. If you come up with a good design for a mount I would like to try it. I have one designed for the Titan and a pancake stepper as an airstruder and I am printing it now but am still waiting on my parts to come so it may be awhile before I get to try it.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by kraegar » Tue May 03, 2016 7:47 am

If you're wanting to direct drive the titan & e3d v6, you don't need a mount, just a 2mm spacer plate between them, technically. I wouldn't do it, though.

From what I've read, the pancake steppers have plenty of torque for the titan when paired with the v6, but that's all been from published reviews, I haven't seen any end users doing it.

I haven't gone ahead and ordered a pancake stepper yet, probably won't since the flying config is working so well. A solid 8 hours of printing yesterday, no strings, no jams.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Polygonhell » Tue May 03, 2016 5:54 pm

I can't comment on the titan with pancake stepper, but I know Johann ran with one of these http://reprap.org/wiki/Ultibots/Micro_Extruder on his Kosel for a while, they run about 170g total.
I have one in a parts draw somewhere I haven't gotten around to trying.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by kraegar » Tue May 03, 2016 8:19 pm

I really want to find a good pancake stepper to pair with the titan, if anyone has one with a ground shaft that they can find (I don't have the tools to grind my own), and decent torque I'd appreciate a link!

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Span24 » Tue May 03, 2016 10:12 pm

We just ordered six steppers from omc-stepperonline.com, three 42x42x20s and three 42x42x25s with plans to do a good bit of testing on our three Deltas. We understand that at only 18.4oz.in of torque we could be underpowering the Titan with the 42x42x20 but what the heck, 'Columbus took a chance'! Development is planned for an air-struder mount for each stepper and we will also try direct mounting the titan to a V6. We appreciate the input we get here and look forward to sharing our results.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by kraegar » Wed May 04, 2016 9:10 am

The mount I made should work for any NEMA 17 sized stepper, regardless of length of the can. I'm interested to hear your results with the different steppers! I have some interesting ideas brewing around these, need to free up some time and money to try them out, though.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by miglo » Fri May 06, 2016 4:37 am

My original flynstrude didn't fit. So I just reimagined it. Motor is one of those tiny short-body 13N Nema17 pancake steppers. Ultra light compared to the original.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by geneb » Fri May 06, 2016 8:05 am

Looks neat! FYI, you're missing the short bit of PTFE tubing that acts as a loading guide for the Titan. :)
(Bonus points for the red 713 Maker mount! :) )
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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Span24 » Fri May 06, 2016 10:37 am

Very nice design indeed! You have inspired some additional design considerations!

When you reload do you just cut the filament above the Titan then pull out from the top after heating the hot-end? One of the biggest PITA for me has been trying to reload by unscrewing the bowden tube connector from the top of the hot-end and pulling the hot filament out before cutting the melted end off then backing the filament out of the extruder. OPEN QUESTION: Is there REALLY any benefit to going through the trouble to do this instead of just backing hot filament out of the extruder without disconnecting the bowden tube?

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by jtrezzo » Fri May 06, 2016 12:24 pm

[quote="miglo"]My original flynstrude didn't fit. So I just reimagined it. Motor is one of those tiny short-body 13N Nema17 pancake steppers. Ultra light compared to the original.

Can you post the link to that mount? How is the performance with the pancake?

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by bob64 » Sat May 07, 2016 12:23 am

Span24 wrote:Very nice design indeed! You have inspired some additional design considerations!

When you reload do you just cut the filament above the Titan then pull out from the top after heating the hot-end? One of the biggest PITA for me has been trying to reload by unscrewing the bowden tube connector from the top of the hot-end and pulling the hot filament out before cutting the melted end off then backing the filament out of the extruder. OPEN QUESTION: Is there REALLY any benefit to going through the trouble to do this instead of just backing hot filament out of the extruder without disconnecting the bowden tube?

Michael


I always retract all of it out the hotend instead of cutting when possible. If you cut, that section won't retract at all once it's past the titan. Also unscrewing the bowden wears out the bowden tube and the connector.
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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by miglo » Sat May 07, 2016 4:38 am

jtrezzo wrote:
miglo wrote:My original flynstrude didn't fit. So I just reimagined it. Motor is one of those tiny short-body 13N Nema17 pancake steppers. Ultra light compared to the original.

Can you post the link to that mount? How is the performance with the pancake?


I'll clean it up some and toss it up on thingiverse tomorrow morning.

I haven't done any extensive testing yet, but i was able to crank out 180mm/s cubes with a .4mm nozzle and .2mm layers. Been putting together my new shapeoko3 :D

I'll play around with it more this weekend. So far so good! Its crazy light.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by miglo » Sat May 07, 2016 4:42 am

Span24 wrote:Very nice design indeed! You have inspired some additional design considerations!

When you reload do you just cut the filament above the Titan then pull out from the top after heating the hot-end? One of the biggest PITA for me has been trying to reload by unscrewing the bowden tube connector from the top of the hot-end and pulling the hot filament out before cutting the melted end off then backing the filament out of the extruder. OPEN QUESTION: Is there REALLY any benefit to going through the trouble to do this instead of just backing hot filament out of the extruder without disconnecting the bowden tube?

Michael


I cut the filament bc I was recalibrating and was way to lazy to heat up the hotend. Otherwise you can pull the handle and pull it out from the top. The flyingstruder is great bc the its almost like a direct extrusion.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Span24 » Sat May 07, 2016 10:27 am

miglo wrote:My original flynstrude didn't fit. So I just reimagined it. Motor is one of those tiny short-body 13N Nema17 pancake steppers. Ultra light compared to the original.


What is the length of the stepper you are using? Weight? We recently ordered some 20 and 25mm steppers to see how they perform. Unfortunately, they ship from China so we may be calling them Christmas gifts by the time they arrive. :lol:

I'm curious to know more about yours and how it performs.

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