E3D Titan on E3D V6?

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Span24
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E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Span24 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:23 pm

Well, my son ordered both the E3d Titan and a E3d V6 Hot-end for his Max V2. His plan is to mount the Titan directly to the V6. We did a little research and have been unable to find any evidence of anyone doing this. As all available mounts seem to collar the V6 and the Titan appears to be mounted in the same manner we are obviously going to need a (different) mount to get the V6 and Titan marriage onto the Rostock effector plate.

Does anyone know of an available mount print for this or are we in uncharted territory?

As always, thanks in advance!

Michael
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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Windshadow » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:43 pm

With deltas mounting the extruder close to the hot end with short length of tube between them is normally looking at using a flying extruder such as the one by trick laser
directly mounting the extruder to the hot end to the effector greatly increases the mass on the effector and would degrade performance I understand but I guess it is worth trying it to see if this in fact the case.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Nylocke » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:53 pm

It can be done but its not recommended. Some designs do this but typically the speed/accelerations are limited by the inertia of the effector. I would recommend the trick laser fly-n-strude or printing the airstruder from repables. The titan would end up being clamped in the mount so the only thing needed would be one of the bowden grove mount adapters that E3D sells. This would also allow them to use the larger stepper for more torque if they use the Volcano or something.

The titan does come with the pancake stepper though, which is significantly lighter than the larger EZstruder stepper, so you probably could get away with it in a direct drive situation. I don't think there are any mounts for it currently though. You and your son may be on your own for designing it.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by kraegar » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:57 pm

I checked, the titan won't mount to Tricklaser's fly-n-strude (per Brian), so any design there would be new.

I have mine mounted in place of the EZStruder, and it works well. The titan actually doesn't come with a motor at all, but the one from the EZStruder works fine.

I'd like to investigate a fly-n-strude type mount for the titan, possibly with a pancake style motor, just to see if performance improves.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Nylocke » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:03 pm

http://repables.com/r/531/ Did you check the air-struder?

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by kraegar » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:15 pm

I have not yet, planning to when I have the time.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Span24 » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:41 pm

We have decided to look at options once the parts arrive. Air-struding is certainly a possibility and it appears that anything we do aside from the standard mounting and bowden tube will require some engineering. Hey, its no fun to be typical, right?

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Nylocke » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:48 pm

The airstruder should work without modification, the motor gets clamped onto the mount (no screw holes). In practice it might prove to be different though.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by kraegar » Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:54 pm

I'd like to correct it so the bowden is better centered, the bowden on the EZStruder was to the left, on the titan it's to the right, and I am not sure about the clearance for the lever & gear. I haven't printed out a airstruder yet to say, but I suspect some minor changes would be a good idea, if not required.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Eaglezsoar » Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:04 am

Would not the Titan attach directly to the E3D by using the mount collar on the E3D6? It appears to be designed to do this. Mods may have to be made to the E3D6 mount so enough of the mounting collar is exposed.
Is that why you are looking for a mount?
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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by kraegar » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:46 am

The titan can mount directly onto the e3d v6, but that's putting a lot of mass, and so inertia, on your effector plate. I think even with a pancake stepper, you don't want that much mass attached to your effector. Tempting to try it and see how it goes, though. For just the cost of a pancake stepper, it would be easy to try.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Jimustanguitar » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:45 am

You can always just hang your extruder motor with zip ties. That's what all the cool kids did before there were parts and kits for sale.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Eaglezsoar » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:37 pm

Now that is one way to put a groove in the ceiling! It really does look like it is rubbing on the ceiling.
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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Span24 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 1:25 pm

We have decided to purchase a Nema 17 Pancake Stepper and go with air-struding. The used Rostock MAX V2 I purchased recently was air-struded but I put is back to stock configuration after tearing it down for initial inspection, rewiring, and replacing the PSU.

With this new E3D V6 Hot-End and the TItan Extruder attached to an 18.4 oz.in stepper we should have no worries. We have decided that we will need to modify Jasspers Air-Struder mount to better fit the shorter stepper but at less than 6oz total weight we think it will 'fly'!

Here is the pancake stepper we are considering.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231619261745?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Thoughts?

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by bob64 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:15 pm

Just remember that you need a 2mm spacer with the titan. I just used enough washers to add this spacer so I don't have to print a spacer to do the same thing.

Also, the stock stepper motor is rated 67 oz-in, that stepper is rated 18.4oz-in but taking titan gearing into account it's about 55.2oz-in
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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Span24 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:36 pm

bob64 wrote:Also, the stock stepper motor is rated 67 oz-in, that stepper is rated 18.4oz-in but taking titan gearing into account it's about 55.2oz-in


I figure that should be fine with 1.75mm filament, correct?

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Nylocke » Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:39 pm

Keep in mind that the titan is using a smaller diameter drive gear (I think its a hobgoblin type, similar to a MK8 drive gear (MK series stands for Mark, and its a standard from Makerbot back in the TOM/Replicator 1 days) (should be around 9mm)) so its torque output is even higher than those ratios since the stock EZstruder has a different drive gear (which has a MK7 style drive gear, larger diameter (should be like 12mm)).

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by bob64 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:16 pm

I think the e3d mentioned it was a 3x gearing.
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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Nylocke » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:55 pm

Yes it is, but the drive gear diameter is smaller than the stock, so it gets a different amount of torque delivered to the filament than if you were to use the stock drive gear with the titan. I'm not sure how the math works out but its potentially the same or more torque delivered to the filament than the stock EZstruder, even with the pancake stepper.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by bob64 » Sun May 01, 2016 2:44 am

Also, if you're planning on air-struding, you can just use a few washers to get that 2mm distance without printing a spacer. Just make sure each washer is the same size. I also got the tricklaser fly-n-strude to work by flipping it upside down for now. Not ideal but it works.
Rostock Max V2 with mods:
E3d v6 with 713maker mount & e3d titan extruder
Tricklaser CF arms, heat spreader, tricktrucks, fly-n-strude, metal carriage & effector
Duet v.8.5.0
24v MeanWell 750w PS & Cydom D1D40 SSR in parallel with stock 12v PS

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by kraegar » Sun May 01, 2016 11:37 am

I've got a air struder type design mocked up, printing the second attempt at it now (the first had too much flex). Got some bungie cords. Can I just hook the cords over the rod between the ball ends on the carriages, or should I make some sort of tie point for them to connect to there?

My model is pretty ugly, but I think it will be functional. It should center the bowden coupling above the hotend when suspended, with equal length cords to each point. (I hope)

Once I've tested it and it works, I'll upload it somewhere.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Nylocke » Sun May 01, 2016 12:22 pm

You can probably get away with just throwing them anywhere. That was my plan for my setup.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by Span24 » Sun May 01, 2016 1:12 pm

kraegar wrote:Once I've tested it and it works, I'll upload it somewhere.


Great! Look forward to seeing what you come up with. We are going to have to wait for the stepper before we attempt any mounts...

Michael
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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by kraegar » Sun May 01, 2016 2:07 pm

Well, just swapped my motor (using a replacement full size nema 17 I had from seemecnc) but found my design limits your access to the adjustment screw on the titan. Other than that, it's great. I put enough tension into it I can continue on, but it's not a design that will work as a "final" one.

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Re: E3D Titan on E3D V6?

Post by kraegar » Sun May 01, 2016 3:31 pm

So, I need some minor design changes. The hole I'd planned to route my cables through is too small. And as I noted, you can't adjust the tension. However, I'm printing, and it works!

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