Aero Mount

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Dionysus480
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Aero Mount

Postby Dionysus480 » Wed May 10, 2017 9:44 pm

Does anyone know of an Aero mount for the v2 that would either attach to the effector or replace it? I don't need cooling ducts, as I'd prefer to use my BERD Air anyway. I'm fine with either top or underslung mount. The only one I'm finding is very nicely designed, but includes the ducting for fans that I don't really need.

Thanks
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Dionysus480
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Re: Aero Mount

Postby Dionysus480 » Fri May 12, 2017 11:34 am

Ok, so I've started messing around with trying to design the mount and I've come up with a few questions.

1 - When adding that much weight to the effector, does it matter in a practical sense whether it is above or below the effector. Since the weight is at the end of an arm, it seems like placing it below the effector would create a longer pendulum which may decrease accuracy or print speeds.

2 - Does anyone have a strong opinion on how far the nozzle should extend below the other structures on the effector? Too little and it seems like you risk dragging, too much and effector mounted cooling will blow excessively on the heater block.

3 - I've tried TinkerCAD, but the precision with which I can line things up and size things seems limited (albeit with the tutorials plus 4 hours of experience.) Is this of sufficient value to continue to put time into learning or is there another low cost product that would be a better time investment? I also have a little experience with Fusion (would my time be better spent with that software?) Other suggestions?

Thanks for any guidance.
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Re: Aero Mount

Postby RichWP » Fri May 12, 2017 3:41 pm

3 - I've tried TinkerCAD, but the precision with which I can line things up and size things seems limited (albeit with the tutorials plus 4 hours of experience.) Is this of sufficient value to continue to put time into learning or is there another low cost product that would be a better time investment? I also have a little experience with Fusion (would my time be better spent with that software?) Other suggestions?


I personally use Fusion 360, and find that it can do just about everything I'm looking for (and do it well).

OnShape is similar to Fusion 360 for Parametric modelling, and can actually do some things better (text, offsets).

IMHO, both blow TinkerCAD out of the water for modelling and precision; I stick with Fusion because of the flexibility of the sculpt and patch environments.

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Re: Aero Mount

Postby Dionysus480 » Sun May 14, 2017 11:55 am

New question. How important is it for the nozzle to be dead-nuts center of the effector platform? More specifically, I do know I can set an offset, but how important is that to be absolutely perfect.

The problem is that I've design v0.1 of a mount for the aero. I've used the engineering drawings to determine the offset of the nozzle from the stepper motor shaft, and I've measured the offset from the face of the spacer.

But even a 0.1 mm error in the placement of the nozzle is 25% of my most common 0.4mm nozzle width. Will this just shift my prints by that much, or will it create artifact.

To solve the situation, I designed a test (haven't actually done the test yet, see below for the remaining issue.)

Step one would be to print a single walled phantom (I'm thinking square.) Once this is done, and the wall thickness is dialed in, then it is printed, and paused. Step two would be to rotate the effector 120 degrees and repeat the phantom on top of the first. The change in wall thickness will tell me the error. Step 3 would be done on top of the reference phantom, also looking for change in wall thickness. Once all three phantoms print on top of each other, the nozzle would be dead center.

So, the problem is that the process would not tell me which way to adjust the mount to correct the error. Any ideas on how to determine which direction the nozzle is displaced based only on the wall thicknesses? (I guess I could try using a microscope.)

Is this all worth it? The problem with the Aero is that the mount points used to register everything are not in plane with the nozzle. Even if the error is based on my print process (extrusion width, thermal characteristics, scaling, etc) how do I figure out what the error is? How close is good enough?
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Xenocrates
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Re: Aero Mount

Postby Xenocrates » Sun May 14, 2017 5:14 pm

Should be just an offset. There may be artifacts that appear from effector tilt, however those should be minimal with a .1mm shift.
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mhackney
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Re: Aero Mount

Postby mhackney » Sun May 14, 2017 5:57 pm

Having already designed a mount for the Rostock MAX for both the Titan Aero and Bondtech BMG systems, I'll say:

1 - When adding that much weight to the effector, does it matter in a practical sense whether it is above or below the effector. Since the weight is at the end of an arm, it seems like placing it below the effector would create a longer pendulum which may decrease accuracy or print speeds.

No, not in a practical sense and it is a non-issue anyway since it is not possible to mount either of these extruders above the effector since the stepper will interfere with the arms.

2 - Does anyone have a strong opinion on how far the nozzle should extend below the other structures on the effector? Too little and it seems like you risk dragging, too much and effector mounted cooling will blow excessively on the heater block.

I don't understand this question.

3 - I've tried TinkerCAD, but the precision with which I can line things up and size things seems limited (albeit with the tutorials plus 4 hours of experience.) Is this of sufficient value to continue to put time into learning or is there another low cost product that would be a better time investment? I also have a little experience with Fusion (would my time be better spent with that software?) Other suggestions?

Abandon TinkerCAD with vim and vigor and use Fusion 360.

I have not openly published either of my effectors because I am still working out details for parts cooling. You can see the Bondtech version here: http://www.sublimelayers.com/2017/03/th ... hroud.html and preliminary STLs are available. I am working on a similar "tusk" part cooling system for the Aero.

FullSizeRender 76 small.jpg

IMG_7697.JPG

IMG_7389.JPG

As you can see, the Aero will be more compact in Z and give you back a little Z height. Also note, both of these mounts work on the stock effector, TrickLaser and 713Maker effectors with no problems as you can see in these photos (there is one of each).

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mhackney
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Re: Aero Mount

Postby mhackney » Sun May 14, 2017 10:19 pm

RE: the nozzle offset. It isn't really that big of a deal at this level. I printed for several years with one of 4 nozzles on a Kraken and never had an issue. One of the best hot ends I've had in fact for single filament printing.

Sublime Layers - my blog on Musings and Experiments in 3D Printing Technology and Art

Start Here:
A Strategy for Successful (and Great) Prints

Strategies for Resolving Print Artifacts

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Dionysus480
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Re: Aero Mount

Postby Dionysus480 » Mon May 15, 2017 12:21 am

Thank you so much for the input guys.

I took the opportunity to dig into Fusion 360 a lot more. I've had some fun designing my own mount. But in seeing the pictures of Michael's. I realize just how much of a newbie I am. I'm printing beta #5 as I type (only betas 3 and 5 made it to the printer.)

Thanks for the input on the dead center question. I do some woodworking and there are definitely times its worth setting up as close to perfect as possible. As I was working through the center positioning, I also realized that consistency is often more important than absolute measurement. My suspicion was that a slight malposition of the nozzle was not a big deal, but I didn't want to share a model with a fatal flaw.

The second question is moot since it has to be underslung. I tried and tried to position it above the effector, but it always interferes. I was just asking how far down most folks position the nozzle when using say, the 713 mount. I'd estimate it to be 10mm on my printer currently (pre-aero conversion.)

Oh and lastly, I really use BERD Air for most of my part cooling, so I'm trying to eliminate what I can from the effector. I built an enclosure and I tend to print PETG on a 75 degree bed in Arizona. The fact that the BERD is hung outside the chamber seems (in my estimation) to help cooling efficiency by bringing in cooler air for part cooling.

Thanks, and I feel strongly I'll share my design if its useable. (I guess the next step is to design in the supports. I'll go review that information.)

PS Note: I did a search before starting this process. There is a mount on Thingiverse (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2286166) that moves the ball joints out 10mm to prevent the interference and has a nice ducted design. As near as I can tell it only works with a volcano heater block. (Its printed and sitting next to me, I haven't put it on the printer and probably won't.)
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thenewguy
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Re: Aero Mount

Postby thenewguy » Wed May 17, 2017 9:23 pm

I sent 713 maker an email the other day about this. Haven't herd back from them. The Areo looks promising and I like the fact that I can modify it pretty easy to set up water cooling.

My question is how will the stepper motor perform in an heated enclosure around 70c? I wonder if that should be water cooled as well?

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Re: Aero Mount

Postby Dionysus480 » Thu May 25, 2017 9:29 pm

Hi guys,

I decided to put my mount out for anyone to copy/examine/use/whatever. Its my first design, and I don't have much time on it, but it appears to be working fine.

Did I mention its my first design? I don't claim its good, but it does work so someone might find it useful. If I change it significantly I'll post. It might work as a temporary while someone develops their own ideas.

Anyway - its for a E3D Titan Aero and BERD Air for part cooling. I took an unorthodox approach and used an accessory tab on the effector to provide additional rigidity to the stepper motor section. It does produce a very imbalanced effector, but I've not seen problems with it yet. The nozzle is approximately centered. I use an effector from 713maker. You will need to print a small spacer as per the drawing to use this with a stock effector.
IMG_4128.JPG

IMG_9118.JPG


This picture is supposed to show the very small length of clear tubing I place on the BERD Air aluminum tube to retain its position. You can see it between the ball joint and the effector. (I use clear fuel line tubing from a local hardware store for the BERD Air.) Its simple and keeps the air ring in place pretty reliably.

Rostock MAX v2 Aero Mount.pdf
(204.69 KiB) Downloaded 15 times

Aero Mount v0.95.stl
(991.88 KiB) Downloaded 13 times
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