Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

This forum is for discussions specific to the Duet-equipped Rostock MAX v3.2 3D printer.
fulcrum
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Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by fulcrum » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:03 pm

Hi all,

I've been doing research into 3D printers and in the process, I started reading about the MAX v3.2. Originally, I wasn't looking into delta printers because I've heard/read that they can be a pain to configure. Since one of my main requirements was a printer that did not require constant tinkering and re-calibration, deltas were not high on my list.

However, from what I've read, the MAX 3.2 is different in that it is fairly easy to calibrate and configure and it is pretty reliable. So, I started focusing my research more into the printer. Unfortunately, there isn't much information on it out there. The reviews are few and far between. I found the article about it being voted high by users but that is pretty much it.

There are some reviews of the MAX v3 but pretty much nothing on the v3.2. None of the big names on YouTube have done reviews on it (or pretty much any large volume SeeMeCNC printer).

I was hoping that the forums would offer more information but the MAX v3.2 forum has just a handful of posts, even though the printer been out for a while and I keep reading that SeeMeCNC has a pretty lively community.

Could this community help with information on the printer? Thank you.

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geneb
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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by geneb » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:47 am

What would you like to know about it?

g.
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fulcrum
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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by fulcrum » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:15 pm

geneb wrote:What would you like to know about it?

g.


Most of my questions are about the printer's operation over a longer period:
  • How reliable is it?
  • How often do I need to spend time re-calibrating it and tweaking it or does the autocalibration always work?
  • What is the user experience over a longer period of time?
  • What are the common pain points with using the printer?
  • I've read that deltas get less accurate when they are printing closer to the edges of the print surface. What is the accuracy deviation for the v3.2?

Thank you for the information.

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geneb
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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by geneb » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:31 am

I have Rostock MAX models going back to 2013 and none have failed due to a mechanical issue, with the exception of the pre-ball joint arms. (The u-joints would sometimes gall the stainless steel axles and begin to bind.) The ball & socket arms have eliminated that issue.

The cycle of tweaking and recalibrating is a thing of the past. The Duet WiFi firmware has an amazing calibration routine that is enhanced by bed mapping. The effector platform has a sensor in it that turns the whole hot end assembly into a z probe and the calibration process is fast enough that you could do it before each print job - it takes around a minute.

I can't speak to "pain points" - maybe another user can step in here?

As to the accuracy change, you might contact support - I don't know that anyone has bothered to measure it. (My personal opinion is that if it was significant enough to notice, people would have been screaming about deltas for years. I think it's a boogeyman used by cartesian printer manufacturers to scare users away from delta printers.)

g.
Delta Power!
Defeat the Cartesian Agenda!
http://www.f15sim.com - 80-0007, The only one of its kind.
http://geneb.simpits.org - Technical and Simulator Projects

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DeltaCon
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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by DeltaCon » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:53 am

To reassure anyone with interest in a SeeMeCNC Delta, In the past (Rostock Models V1 and V2) everybody was always busy upgrading machines with different arms, different skates, different hotends and different controllers. I think SeeMeCNC took that as criticism ;-) because the later models incorporated almost all of those mods into a new version, the V3.2. The reason for not hearing much about it, is because there really is not much to be desired after buying this machine ;-). Also much of the attention get's stolen by the Artemis.
I am DeltaCon, I have a delta, my name is Con, I am definitely PRO delta! ;-)
Rostock V2 / E3D Volcano / FSR kit / Duet 0.6

PS.: Sorry for the avatar, that's my other hobby!

fulcrum
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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by fulcrum » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:35 pm

geneb wrote:As to the accuracy change, you might contact support - I don't know that anyone has bothered to measure it. (My personal opinion is that if it was significant enough to notice, people would have been screaming about deltas for years. I think it's a boogeyman used by cartesian printer manufacturers to scare users away from delta printers.)

g.


I am no expert in delta kinematics but I am not sure that the math supports your claim. Suppose that I have a printer with a bed diameter of 400mm and an arm of 1000mm. Suppose also, for the purposes of this example, that my stepper/pulley combo can achieve a minimum sled travel of 0.1mm per stepper step. If I calculate the movement from bed center to bed edge for each stepper step, I get the following:

Code: Select all

X @ 200.00000000 , Z @ 979.80, delta Z 0.00000000 -> delta X = 0.00000000
X @ 200.48927447 , Z @ 979.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.48927447
X @ 200.97730807 , Z @ 979.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.48803359
X @ 201.46410980 , Z @ 979.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.48680173
X @ 201.94968858 , Z @ 979.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.48557878
X @ 202.43405321 , Z @ 979.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.48436462
X @ 202.91721237 , Z @ 979.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.48315917
X @ 203.39917467 , Z @ 979.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.48196230
X @ 203.87994859 , Z @ 979.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.48077392
X @ 204.35954251 , Z @ 978.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.47959392
X @ 204.83796473 , Z @ 978.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.47842222
X @ 205.31522343 , Z @ 978.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.47725870
X @ 205.79132672 , Z @ 978.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.47610329
X @ 206.26628259 , Z @ 978.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.47495587
X @ 206.74009895 , Z @ 978.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.47381636
X @ 207.21278361 , Z @ 978.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.47268466
X @ 207.68434431 , Z @ 978.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.47156070
X @ 208.15478868 , Z @ 978.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.47044437
X @ 208.62412428 , Z @ 978.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.46933560
X @ 209.09235856 , Z @ 977.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.46823429
X @ 209.55949892 , Z @ 977.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.46714036
X @ 210.02555265 , Z @ 977.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.46605373
X @ 210.49052698 , Z @ 977.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.46497432
X @ 210.95442903 , Z @ 977.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.46390205
X @ 211.41726587 , Z @ 977.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.46283684
X @ 211.87904447 , Z @ 977.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.46177860
X @ 212.33977175 , Z @ 977.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.46072728
X @ 212.79945452 , Z @ 977.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.45968278
X @ 213.25809955 , Z @ 977.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.45864503
X @ 213.71571352 , Z @ 976.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.45761396
X @ 214.17230302 , Z @ 976.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.45658951
X @ 214.62787462 , Z @ 976.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.45557159
X @ 215.08243476 , Z @ 976.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.45456014
X @ 215.53598985 , Z @ 976.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.45355509
X @ 215.98854622 , Z @ 976.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.45255637
X @ 216.44011015 , Z @ 976.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.45156392
X @ 216.89068781 , Z @ 976.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.45057767
X @ 217.34028536 , Z @ 976.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.44959754
X @ 217.78890885 , Z @ 976.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.44862349
X @ 218.23656430 , Z @ 975.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.44765545
X @ 218.68325765 , Z @ 975.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.44669335
X @ 219.12899479 , Z @ 975.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.44573714
X @ 219.57378153 , Z @ 975.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.44478674
X @ 220.01762365 , Z @ 975.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.44384212
X @ 220.46052684 , Z @ 975.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.44290319
X @ 220.90249676 , Z @ 975.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.44196992
X @ 221.34353899 , Z @ 975.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.44104223
X @ 221.78365908 , Z @ 975.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.44012008
X @ 222.22286249 , Z @ 975.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.43920341
X @ 222.66115465 , Z @ 974.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.43829217
X @ 223.09854094 , Z @ 974.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.43738629
X @ 223.53502667 , Z @ 974.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.43648573
X @ 223.97061711 , Z @ 974.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.43559044
X @ 224.40531747 , Z @ 974.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.43470036
X @ 224.83913291 , Z @ 974.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.43381544
X @ 225.27206855 , Z @ 974.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.43293564
X @ 225.70412944 , Z @ 974.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.43206089
X @ 226.13532061 , Z @ 974.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.43119117
X @ 226.56564701 , Z @ 974.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.43032640
X @ 226.99511357 , Z @ 973.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.42946656
X @ 227.42372516 , Z @ 973.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.42861159
X @ 227.85148660 , Z @ 973.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.42776144
X @ 228.27840267 , Z @ 973.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.42691607
X @ 228.70447810 , Z @ 973.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.42607543
X @ 229.12971759 , Z @ 973.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.42523949
X @ 229.55412578 , Z @ 973.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.42440819
X @ 229.97770727 , Z @ 973.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.42358149
X @ 230.40046663 , Z @ 973.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.42275935
X @ 230.82240836 , Z @ 973.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.42194173
X @ 231.24353695 , Z @ 972.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.42112859
X @ 231.66385683 , Z @ 972.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.42031988
X @ 232.08337239 , Z @ 972.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.41951556
X @ 232.50208799 , Z @ 972.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.41871560
X @ 232.92000794 , Z @ 972.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.41791995
X @ 233.33713652 , Z @ 972.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.41712858
X @ 233.75347796 , Z @ 972.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.41634144
X @ 234.16903646 , Z @ 972.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.41555850
X @ 234.58381618 , Z @ 972.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.41477973
X @ 234.99782126 , Z @ 972.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.41400507
X @ 235.41105576 , Z @ 971.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.41323450
X @ 235.82352375 , Z @ 971.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.41246799
X @ 236.23522924 , Z @ 971.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.41170549
X @ 236.64617621 , Z @ 971.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.41094697
X @ 237.05636860 , Z @ 971.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.41019239
X @ 237.46581032 , Z @ 971.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.40944172
X @ 237.87450526 , Z @ 971.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.40869494
X @ 238.28245724 , Z @ 971.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.40795199
X @ 238.68967009 , Z @ 971.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.40721285
X @ 239.09614758 , Z @ 971.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.40647749
X @ 239.50189346 , Z @ 970.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.40574587
X @ 239.90691142 , Z @ 970.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.40501797
X @ 240.31120516 , Z @ 970.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.40429374
X @ 240.71477833 , Z @ 970.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.40357317
X @ 241.11763454 , Z @ 970.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.40285621
X @ 241.51977738 , Z @ 970.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.40214284
X @ 241.92121041 , Z @ 970.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.40143303
X @ 242.32193715 , Z @ 970.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.40072674
X @ 242.72196111 , Z @ 970.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.40002396
X @ 243.12128575 , Z @ 970.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.39932464
X @ 243.51991451 , Z @ 969.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.39862876
X @ 243.91785081 , Z @ 969.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.39793630
X @ 244.31509802 , Z @ 969.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.39724722
X @ 244.71165951 , Z @ 969.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.39656149
X @ 245.10753860 , Z @ 969.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.39587909
X @ 245.50273860 , Z @ 969.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.39520000
X @ 245.89726277 , Z @ 969.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.39452417
X @ 246.29111437 , Z @ 969.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.39385160
X @ 246.68429662 , Z @ 969.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.39318225
X @ 247.07681271 , Z @ 969.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.39251609
X @ 247.46866581 , Z @ 968.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.39185310
X @ 247.85985907 , Z @ 968.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.39119326
X @ 248.25039560 , Z @ 968.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.39053653
X @ 248.64027851 , Z @ 968.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.38988290
X @ 249.02951085 , Z @ 968.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.38923235
X @ 249.41809568 , Z @ 968.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.38858483
X @ 249.80603602 , Z @ 968.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.38794034
X @ 250.19333487 , Z @ 968.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.38729885
X @ 250.57999520 , Z @ 968.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.38666033
X @ 250.96601995 , Z @ 968.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.38602476
X @ 251.35141207 , Z @ 967.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.38539212
X @ 251.73617446 , Z @ 967.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.38476238
X @ 252.12030999 , Z @ 967.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.38413553
X @ 252.50382153 , Z @ 967.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.38351154
X @ 252.88671193 , Z @ 967.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.38289039
X @ 253.26898398 , Z @ 967.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.38227206
X @ 253.65064050 , Z @ 967.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.38165652
X @ 254.03168426 , Z @ 967.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.38104376
X @ 254.41211800 , Z @ 967.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.38043374
X @ 254.79194447 , Z @ 967.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.37982647
X @ 255.17116637 , Z @ 966.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.37922190
X @ 255.54978639 , Z @ 966.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.37862002
X @ 255.92780721 , Z @ 966.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.37802082
X @ 256.30523148 , Z @ 966.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.37742427
X @ 256.68206183 , Z @ 966.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.37683035
X @ 257.05830086 , Z @ 966.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.37623904
X @ 257.43395118 , Z @ 966.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.37565032
X @ 257.80901536 , Z @ 966.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.37506418
X @ 258.18349595 , Z @ 966.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.37448059
X @ 258.55739549 , Z @ 966.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.37389954
X @ 258.93071649 , Z @ 965.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.37332100
X @ 259.30346145 , Z @ 965.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.37274496
X @ 259.67563285 , Z @ 965.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.37217141
X @ 260.04723317 , Z @ 965.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.37160031
X @ 260.41826483 , Z @ 965.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.37103166
X @ 260.78873027 , Z @ 965.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.37046544
X @ 261.15863190 , Z @ 965.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.36990163
X @ 261.52797211 , Z @ 965.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.36934021
X @ 261.89675327 , Z @ 965.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.36878116
X @ 262.26497775 , Z @ 965.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.36822448
X @ 262.63264788 , Z @ 964.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.36767013
X @ 262.99976599 , Z @ 964.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.36711811
X @ 263.36633440 , Z @ 964.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.36656840
X @ 263.73235538 , Z @ 964.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.36602098
X @ 264.09783121 , Z @ 964.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.36547584
X @ 264.46276417 , Z @ 964.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.36493295
X @ 264.82715648 , Z @ 964.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.36439231
X @ 265.19101039 , Z @ 964.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.36385390
X @ 265.55432809 , Z @ 964.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.36331771
X @ 265.91711180 , Z @ 964.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.36278371
X @ 266.27936369 , Z @ 963.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.36225189
X @ 266.64108593 , Z @ 963.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.36172224
X @ 267.00228068 , Z @ 963.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.36119474
X @ 267.36295006 , Z @ 963.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.36066939
X @ 267.72309621 , Z @ 963.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.36014615
X @ 268.08272124 , Z @ 963.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.35962502
X @ 268.44182723 , Z @ 963.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.35910599
X @ 268.80041626 , Z @ 963.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.35858904
X @ 269.15849042 , Z @ 963.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.35807415
X @ 269.51605174 , Z @ 963.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.35756132
X @ 269.87310226 , Z @ 962.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.35705052
X @ 270.22964401 , Z @ 962.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.35654175
X @ 270.58567900 , Z @ 962.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.35603499
X @ 270.94120923 , Z @ 962.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.35553023
X @ 271.29623669 , Z @ 962.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.35502745
X @ 271.65076333 , Z @ 962.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.35452665
X @ 272.00479113 , Z @ 962.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.35402780
X @ 272.35832203 , Z @ 962.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.35353090
X @ 272.71135796 , Z @ 962.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.35303593
X @ 273.06390083 , Z @ 962.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.35254288
X @ 273.41595256 , Z @ 961.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.35205173
X @ 273.76751505 , Z @ 961.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.35156248
X @ 274.11859017 , Z @ 961.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.35107512
X @ 274.46917979 , Z @ 961.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.35058962
X @ 274.81928578 , Z @ 961.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.35010599
X @ 275.16890997 , Z @ 961.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.34962419
X @ 275.51805421 , Z @ 961.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.34914424
X @ 275.86672031 , Z @ 961.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.34866610
X @ 276.21491008 , Z @ 961.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.34818978
X @ 276.56262533 , Z @ 961.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.34771525
X @ 276.90986785 , Z @ 960.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.34724251
X @ 277.25663940 , Z @ 960.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.34677155
X @ 277.60294175 , Z @ 960.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.34630235
X @ 277.94877666 , Z @ 960.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.34583491
X @ 278.29414588 , Z @ 960.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.34536921
X @ 278.63905112 , Z @ 960.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.34490524
X @ 278.98349411 , Z @ 960.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.34444299
X @ 279.32747657 , Z @ 960.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.34398246
X @ 279.67100019 , Z @ 960.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.34352362
X @ 280.01406666 , Z @ 960.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.34306647
X @ 280.35667765 , Z @ 959.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.34261100
X @ 280.69883485 , Z @ 959.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.34215719
X @ 281.04053989 , Z @ 959.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.34170505
X @ 281.38179444 , Z @ 959.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.34125455
X @ 281.72260013 , Z @ 959.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.34080569
X @ 282.06295858 , Z @ 959.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.34035845
X @ 282.40287141 , Z @ 959.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33991283
X @ 282.74234023 , Z @ 959.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33946882
X @ 283.08136664 , Z @ 959.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33902641
X @ 283.41995223 , Z @ 959.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33858558
X @ 283.75809856 , Z @ 958.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33814634
X @ 284.09580722 , Z @ 958.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33770866
X @ 284.43307975 , Z @ 958.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33727254
X @ 284.76991772 , Z @ 958.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33683797
X @ 285.10632265 , Z @ 958.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33640493
X @ 285.44229609 , Z @ 958.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33597344
X @ 285.77783955 , Z @ 958.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33554346
X @ 286.11295454 , Z @ 958.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33511499
X @ 286.44764257 , Z @ 958.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33468803
X @ 286.78190514 , Z @ 958.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33426257
X @ 287.11574372 , Z @ 957.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33383859
X @ 287.44915981 , Z @ 957.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33341608
X @ 287.78215485 , Z @ 957.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33299505
X @ 288.11473033 , Z @ 957.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33257547
X @ 288.44688768 , Z @ 957.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33215735
X @ 288.77862835 , Z @ 957.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33174067
X @ 289.10995377 , Z @ 957.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33132542
X @ 289.44086538 , Z @ 957.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33091160
X @ 289.77136458 , Z @ 957.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33049920
X @ 290.10145279 , Z @ 957.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.33008821
X @ 290.43113140 , Z @ 956.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32967862
X @ 290.76040182 , Z @ 956.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32927042
X @ 291.08926543 , Z @ 956.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32886361
X @ 291.41772360 , Z @ 956.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32845817
X @ 291.74577770 , Z @ 956.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32805410
X @ 292.07342910 , Z @ 956.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32765140
X @ 292.40067914 , Z @ 956.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32725005
X @ 292.72752919 , Z @ 956.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32685004
X @ 293.05398056 , Z @ 956.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32645138
X @ 293.38003460 , Z @ 956.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32605404
X @ 293.70569263 , Z @ 955.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32565803
X @ 294.03095596 , Z @ 955.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32526333
X @ 294.35582590 , Z @ 955.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32486994
X @ 294.68030375 , Z @ 955.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32447785
X @ 295.00439081 , Z @ 955.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32408706
X @ 295.32808837 , Z @ 955.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32369755
X @ 295.65139769 , Z @ 955.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32330933
X @ 295.97432007 , Z @ 955.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32292237
X @ 296.29685675 , Z @ 955.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32253668
X @ 296.61900899 , Z @ 955.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32215225
X @ 296.94077806 , Z @ 954.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32176907
X @ 297.26216519 , Z @ 954.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32138713
X @ 297.58317163 , Z @ 954.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32100643
X @ 297.90379859 , Z @ 954.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32062696
X @ 298.22404731 , Z @ 954.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.32024872
X @ 298.54391900 , Z @ 954.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31987169
X @ 298.86341488 , Z @ 954.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31949588
X @ 299.18253614 , Z @ 954.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31912126
X @ 299.50128399 , Z @ 954.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31874785
X @ 299.81965961 , Z @ 954.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31837562
X @ 300.13766420 , Z @ 953.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31800458
X @ 300.45529892 , Z @ 953.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31763472
X @ 300.77256495 , Z @ 953.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31726603
X @ 301.08946346 , Z @ 953.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31689851
X @ 301.40599561 , Z @ 953.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31653214
X @ 301.72216254 , Z @ 953.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31616693
X @ 302.03796541 , Z @ 953.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31580287
X @ 302.35340535 , Z @ 953.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31543994
X @ 302.66848350 , Z @ 953.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31507815
X @ 302.98320100 , Z @ 953.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31471749
X @ 303.29755895 , Z @ 952.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31435795
X @ 303.61155848 , Z @ 952.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31399953
X @ 303.92520070 , Z @ 952.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31364222
X @ 304.23848672 , Z @ 952.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31328602
X @ 304.55141763 , Z @ 952.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31293091
X @ 304.86399453 , Z @ 952.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31257690
X @ 305.17621851 , Z @ 952.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31222397
X @ 305.48809064 , Z @ 952.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31187213
X @ 305.79961200 , Z @ 952.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31152136
X @ 306.11078367 , Z @ 952.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31117167
X @ 306.42160671 , Z @ 951.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31082304
X @ 306.73208218 , Z @ 951.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31047547
X @ 307.04221113 , Z @ 951.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.31012895
X @ 307.35199462 , Z @ 951.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30978349
X @ 307.66143368 , Z @ 951.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30943906
X @ 307.97052936 , Z @ 951.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30909568
X @ 308.27928269 , Z @ 951.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30875333
X @ 308.58769469 , Z @ 951.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30841200
X @ 308.89576639 , Z @ 951.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30807170
X @ 309.20349881 , Z @ 951.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30773241
X @ 309.51089295 , Z @ 950.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30739414
X @ 309.81794982 , Z @ 950.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30705688
X @ 310.12467043 , Z @ 950.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30672061
X @ 310.43105578 , Z @ 950.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30638534
X @ 310.73710685 , Z @ 950.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30605107
X @ 311.04282462 , Z @ 950.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30571778
X @ 311.34821010 , Z @ 950.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30538547
X @ 311.65326424 , Z @ 950.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30505414
X @ 311.95798802 , Z @ 950.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30472378
X @ 312.26238241 , Z @ 950.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30439439
X @ 312.56644837 , Z @ 949.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30406596
X @ 312.87018686 , Z @ 949.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30373849
X @ 313.17359883 , Z @ 949.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30341197
X @ 313.47668523 , Z @ 949.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30308640
X @ 313.77944701 , Z @ 949.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30276177
X @ 314.08188509 , Z @ 949.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30243809
X @ 314.38400043 , Z @ 949.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30211533
X @ 314.68579393 , Z @ 949.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30179351
X @ 314.98726654 , Z @ 949.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30147261
X @ 315.28841917 , Z @ 949.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30115263
X @ 315.58925273 , Z @ 948.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30083357
X @ 315.88976815 , Z @ 948.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30051541
X @ 316.18996632 , Z @ 948.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.30019817
X @ 316.48984815 , Z @ 948.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29988183
X @ 316.78941453 , Z @ 948.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29956639
X @ 317.08866637 , Z @ 948.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29925184
X @ 317.38760454 , Z @ 948.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29893818
X @ 317.68622995 , Z @ 948.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29862540
X @ 317.98454346 , Z @ 948.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29831351
X @ 318.28254595 , Z @ 948.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29800249
X @ 318.58023830 , Z @ 947.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29769235
X @ 318.87762138 , Z @ 947.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29738308
X @ 319.17469604 , Z @ 947.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29707467
X @ 319.47146316 , Z @ 947.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29676712
X @ 319.76792358 , Z @ 947.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29646042
X @ 320.06407817 , Z @ 947.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29615458
X @ 320.35992776 , Z @ 947.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29584959
X @ 320.65547320 , Z @ 947.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29554544
X @ 320.95071533 , Z @ 947.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29524213
X @ 321.24565499 , Z @ 947.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29493966
X @ 321.54029301 , Z @ 946.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29463802
X @ 321.83463022 , Z @ 946.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29433721
X @ 322.12866744 , Z @ 946.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29403722
X @ 322.42240550 , Z @ 946.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29373806
X @ 322.71584521 , Z @ 946.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29343971
X @ 323.00898738 , Z @ 946.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29314217
X @ 323.30183282 , Z @ 946.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29284544
X @ 323.59438235 , Z @ 946.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29254952
X @ 323.88663675 , Z @ 946.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29225440
X @ 324.17859683 , Z @ 946.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29196008
X @ 324.47026339 , Z @ 945.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29166656
X @ 324.76163721 , Z @ 945.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29137382
X @ 325.05271908 , Z @ 945.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29108187
X @ 325.34350979 , Z @ 945.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29079071
X @ 325.63401011 , Z @ 945.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29050032
X @ 325.92422083 , Z @ 945.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.29021071
X @ 326.21414271 , Z @ 945.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28992188
X @ 326.50377652 , Z @ 945.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28963381
X @ 326.79312303 , Z @ 945.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28934651
X @ 327.08218300 , Z @ 945.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28905997
X @ 327.37095720 , Z @ 944.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28877420
X @ 327.65944637 , Z @ 944.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28848917
X @ 327.94765128 , Z @ 944.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28820490
X @ 328.23557266 , Z @ 944.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28792138
X @ 328.52321126 , Z @ 944.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28763860
X @ 328.81056783 , Z @ 944.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28735657
X @ 329.09764310 , Z @ 944.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28707527
X @ 329.38443781 , Z @ 944.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28679471
X @ 329.67095270 , Z @ 944.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28651489
X @ 329.95718849 , Z @ 944.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28623579
X @ 330.24314590 , Z @ 943.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28595741
X @ 330.52882566 , Z @ 943.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28567976
X @ 330.81422849 , Z @ 943.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28540283
X @ 331.09935511 , Z @ 943.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28512661
X @ 331.38420622 , Z @ 943.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28485111
X @ 331.66878254 , Z @ 943.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28457632
X @ 331.95308477 , Z @ 943.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28430223
X @ 332.23711362 , Z @ 943.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28402885
X @ 332.52086979 , Z @ 943.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28375617
X @ 332.80435398 , Z @ 943.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28348419
X @ 333.08756688 , Z @ 942.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28321290
X @ 333.37050917 , Z @ 942.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28294230
X @ 333.65318156 , Z @ 942.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28267239
X @ 333.93558472 , Z @ 942.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28240316
X @ 334.21771935 , Z @ 942.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28213462
X @ 334.49958610 , Z @ 942.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28186676
X @ 334.78118568 , Z @ 942.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28159957
X @ 335.06251874 , Z @ 942.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28133306
X @ 335.34358596 , Z @ 942.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28106722
X @ 335.62438800 , Z @ 942.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28080205
X @ 335.90492554 , Z @ 941.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28053754
X @ 336.18519923 , Z @ 941.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28027369
X @ 336.46520973 , Z @ 941.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.28001050
X @ 336.74495770 , Z @ 941.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27974797
X @ 337.02444380 , Z @ 941.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27948610
X @ 337.30366867 , Z @ 941.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27922487
X @ 337.58263296 , Z @ 941.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27896429
X @ 337.86133732 , Z @ 941.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27870436
X @ 338.13978239 , Z @ 941.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27844507
X @ 338.41796881 , Z @ 941.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27818642
X @ 338.69589722 , Z @ 940.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27792841
X @ 338.97356825 , Z @ 940.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27767103
X @ 339.25098254 , Z @ 940.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27741429
X @ 339.52814071 , Z @ 940.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27715817
X @ 339.80504339 , Z @ 940.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27690268
X @ 340.08169120 , Z @ 940.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27664781
X @ 340.35808478 , Z @ 940.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27639357
X @ 340.63422472 , Z @ 940.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27613995
X @ 340.91011166 , Z @ 940.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27588694
X @ 341.18574620 , Z @ 940.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27563454
X @ 341.46112896 , Z @ 939.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27538276
X @ 341.73626054 , Z @ 939.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27513158
X @ 342.01114156 , Z @ 939.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27488101
X @ 342.28577261 , Z @ 939.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27463105
X @ 342.56015429 , Z @ 939.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27438169
X @ 342.83428721 , Z @ 939.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27413292
X @ 343.10817196 , Z @ 939.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27388475
X @ 343.38180914 , Z @ 939.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27363718
X @ 343.65519933 , Z @ 939.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27339019
X @ 343.92834312 , Z @ 939.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27314380
X @ 344.20124111 , Z @ 938.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27289799
X @ 344.47389388 , Z @ 938.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27265276
X @ 344.74630200 , Z @ 938.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27240812
X @ 345.01846606 , Z @ 938.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27216406
X @ 345.29038663 , Z @ 938.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27192057
X @ 345.56206430 , Z @ 938.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27167766
X @ 345.83349962 , Z @ 938.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27143532
X @ 346.10469318 , Z @ 938.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27119356
X @ 346.37564553 , Z @ 938.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27095236
X @ 346.64635726 , Z @ 938.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27071172
X @ 346.91682891 , Z @ 937.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27047165
X @ 347.18706105 , Z @ 937.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.27023214
X @ 347.45705423 , Z @ 937.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26999319
X @ 347.72680903 , Z @ 937.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26975479
X @ 347.99632598 , Z @ 937.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26951695
X @ 348.26560564 , Z @ 937.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26927966
X @ 348.53464857 , Z @ 937.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26904293
X @ 348.80345531 , Z @ 937.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26880674
X @ 349.07202640 , Z @ 937.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26857109
X @ 349.34036239 , Z @ 937.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26833599
X @ 349.60846382 , Z @ 936.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26810143
X @ 349.87633123 , Z @ 936.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26786741
X @ 350.14396515 , Z @ 936.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26763392
X @ 350.41136613 , Z @ 936.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26740098
X @ 350.67853469 , Z @ 936.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26716856
X @ 350.94547136 , Z @ 936.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26693668
X @ 351.21217668 , Z @ 936.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26670532
X @ 351.47865117 , Z @ 936.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26647449
X @ 351.74489535 , Z @ 936.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26624418
X @ 352.01090976 , Z @ 936.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26601440
X @ 352.27669490 , Z @ 935.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26578514
X @ 352.54225129 , Z @ 935.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26555640
X @ 352.80757946 , Z @ 935.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26532817
X @ 353.07267992 , Z @ 935.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26510046
X @ 353.33755318 , Z @ 935.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26487326
X @ 353.60219974 , Z @ 935.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26464657
X @ 353.86662013 , Z @ 935.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26442039
X @ 354.13081484 , Z @ 935.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26419471
X @ 354.39478439 , Z @ 935.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26396954
X @ 354.65852927 , Z @ 935.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26374488
X @ 354.92204998 , Z @ 934.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26352071
X @ 355.18534702 , Z @ 934.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26329705
X @ 355.44842090 , Z @ 934.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26307388
X @ 355.71127210 , Z @ 934.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26285120
X @ 355.97390112 , Z @ 934.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26262902
X @ 356.23630845 , Z @ 934.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26240733
X @ 356.49849458 , Z @ 934.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26218613
X @ 356.76046000 , Z @ 934.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26196542
X @ 357.02220519 , Z @ 934.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26174519
X @ 357.28373063 , Z @ 934.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26152545
X @ 357.54503682 , Z @ 933.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26130619
X @ 357.80612423 , Z @ 933.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26108741
X @ 358.06699333 , Z @ 933.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26086910
X @ 358.32764461 , Z @ 933.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26065128
X @ 358.58807854 , Z @ 933.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26043393
X @ 358.84829560 , Z @ 933.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26021705
X @ 359.10829624 , Z @ 933.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.26000065
X @ 359.36808096 , Z @ 933.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25978471
X @ 359.62765020 , Z @ 933.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25956925
X @ 359.88700445 , Z @ 933.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25935424
X @ 360.14614415 , Z @ 932.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25913971
X @ 360.40506979 , Z @ 932.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25892563
X @ 360.66378181 , Z @ 932.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25871202
X @ 360.92228067 , Z @ 932.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25849887
X @ 361.18056685 , Z @ 932.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25828617
X @ 361.43864078 , Z @ 932.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25807393
X @ 361.69650292 , Z @ 932.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25786215
X @ 361.95415373 , Z @ 932.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25765081
X @ 362.21159366 , Z @ 932.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25743993
X @ 362.46882316 , Z @ 932.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25722950
X @ 362.72584267 , Z @ 931.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25701951
X @ 362.98265265 , Z @ 931.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25680997
X @ 363.23925353 , Z @ 931.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25660088
X @ 363.49564575 , Z @ 931.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25639223
X @ 363.75182977 , Z @ 931.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25618402
X @ 364.00780602 , Z @ 931.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25597625
X @ 364.26357493 , Z @ 931.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25576891
X @ 364.51913695 , Z @ 931.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25556202
X @ 364.77449250 , Z @ 931.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25535555
X @ 365.02964203 , Z @ 931.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25514953
X @ 365.28458596 , Z @ 930.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25494393
X @ 365.53932472 , Z @ 930.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25473876
X @ 365.79385875 , Z @ 930.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25453403
X @ 366.04818846 , Z @ 930.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25432972
X @ 366.30231429 , Z @ 930.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25412583
X @ 366.55623666 , Z @ 930.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25392237
X @ 366.80995599 , Z @ 930.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25371933
X @ 367.06347270 , Z @ 930.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25351671
X @ 367.31678722 , Z @ 930.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25331452
X @ 367.56989995 , Z @ 930.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25311274
X @ 367.82281133 , Z @ 929.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25291137
X @ 368.07552175 , Z @ 929.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25271042
X @ 368.32803164 , Z @ 929.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25250989
X @ 368.58034140 , Z @ 929.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25230977
X @ 368.83245146 , Z @ 929.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25211005
X @ 369.08436221 , Z @ 929.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25191075
X @ 369.33607407 , Z @ 929.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25171186
X @ 369.58758744 , Z @ 929.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25151337
X @ 369.83890272 , Z @ 929.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25131529
X @ 370.09002033 , Z @ 929.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25111761
X @ 370.34094066 , Z @ 928.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25092033
X @ 370.59166411 , Z @ 928.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25072345
X @ 370.84219108 , Z @ 928.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25052697
X @ 371.09252197 , Z @ 928.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25033089
X @ 371.34265718 , Z @ 928.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.25013521
X @ 371.59259711 , Z @ 928.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24993992
X @ 371.84234213 , Z @ 928.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24974503
X @ 372.09189266 , Z @ 928.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24955053
X @ 372.34124907 , Z @ 928.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24935641
X @ 372.59041177 , Z @ 928.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24916269
X @ 372.83938113 , Z @ 927.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24896936
X @ 373.08815754 , Z @ 927.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24877642
X @ 373.33674140 , Z @ 927.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24858386
X @ 373.58513308 , Z @ 927.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24839168
X @ 373.83333297 , Z @ 927.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24819989
X @ 374.08134145 , Z @ 927.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24800848
X @ 374.32915889 , Z @ 927.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24781745
X @ 374.57678569 , Z @ 927.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24762680
X @ 374.82422221 , Z @ 927.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24743652
X @ 375.07146884 , Z @ 927.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24724663
X @ 375.31852594 , Z @ 926.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24705710
X @ 375.56539390 , Z @ 926.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24686796
X @ 375.81207308 , Z @ 926.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24667918
X @ 376.05856386 , Z @ 926.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24649078
X @ 376.30486661 , Z @ 926.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24630275
X @ 376.55098169 , Z @ 926.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24611508
X @ 376.79690948 , Z @ 926.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24592779
X @ 377.04265033 , Z @ 926.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24574086
X @ 377.28820463 , Z @ 926.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24555429
X @ 377.53357272 , Z @ 926.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24536809
X @ 377.77875497 , Z @ 925.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24518225
X @ 378.02375175 , Z @ 925.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24499678
X @ 378.26856341 , Z @ 925.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24481166
X @ 378.51319032 , Z @ 925.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24462691
X @ 378.75763283 , Z @ 925.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24444251
X @ 379.00189130 , Z @ 925.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24425847
X @ 379.24596608 , Z @ 925.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24407478
X @ 379.48985753 , Z @ 925.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24389145
X @ 379.73356600 , Z @ 925.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24370847
X @ 379.97709184 , Z @ 925.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24352584
X @ 380.22043541 , Z @ 924.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24334357
X @ 380.46359705 , Z @ 924.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24316164
X @ 380.70657712 , Z @ 924.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24298007
X @ 380.94937596 , Z @ 924.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24279884
X @ 381.19199391 , Z @ 924.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24261795
X @ 381.43443132 , Z @ 924.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24243742
X @ 381.67668855 , Z @ 924.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24225722
X @ 381.91876592 , Z @ 924.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24207737
X @ 382.16066378 , Z @ 924.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24189786
X @ 382.40238247 , Z @ 924.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24171869
X @ 382.64392233 , Z @ 923.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24153986
X @ 382.88528370 , Z @ 923.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24136137
X @ 383.12646692 , Z @ 923.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24118322
X @ 383.36747232 , Z @ 923.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24100540
X @ 383.60830024 , Z @ 923.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24082792
X @ 383.84895101 , Z @ 923.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24065077
X @ 384.08942497 , Z @ 923.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24047396
X @ 384.32972244 , Z @ 923.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24029747
X @ 384.56984376 , Z @ 923.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.24012132
X @ 384.80978926 , Z @ 923.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23994550
X @ 385.04955927 , Z @ 922.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23977000
X @ 385.28915410 , Z @ 922.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23959484
X @ 385.52857410 , Z @ 922.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23942000
X @ 385.76781959 , Z @ 922.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23924548
X @ 386.00689088 , Z @ 922.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23907129
X @ 386.24578831 , Z @ 922.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23889743
X @ 386.48451220 , Z @ 922.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23872389
X @ 386.72306286 , Z @ 922.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23855066
X @ 386.96144062 , Z @ 922.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23837776
X @ 387.19964580 , Z @ 922.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23820518
X @ 387.43767871 , Z @ 921.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23803291
X @ 387.67553968 , Z @ 921.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23786097
X @ 387.91322901 , Z @ 921.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23768934
X @ 388.15074704 , Z @ 921.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23751802
X @ 388.38809405 , Z @ 921.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23734702
X @ 388.62527039 , Z @ 921.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23717633
X @ 388.86227634 , Z @ 921.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23700596
X @ 389.09911223 , Z @ 921.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23683589
X @ 389.33577837 , Z @ 921.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23666614
X @ 389.57227507 , Z @ 921.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23649669
X @ 389.80860262 , Z @ 920.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23632756
X @ 390.04476135 , Z @ 920.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23615873
X @ 390.28075156 , Z @ 920.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23599021
X @ 390.51657355 , Z @ 920.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23582199
X @ 390.75222763 , Z @ 920.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23565408
X @ 390.98771410 , Z @ 920.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23548647
X @ 391.22303326 , Z @ 920.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23531916
X @ 391.45818542 , Z @ 920.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23515216
X @ 391.69317088 , Z @ 920.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23498546
X @ 391.92798994 , Z @ 920.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23481905
X @ 392.16264288 , Z @ 919.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23465295
X @ 392.39713003 , Z @ 919.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23448714
X @ 392.63145166 , Z @ 919.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23432163
X @ 392.86560808 , Z @ 919.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23415642
X @ 393.09959958 , Z @ 919.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23399150
X @ 393.33342646 , Z @ 919.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23382688
X @ 393.56708901 , Z @ 919.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23366255
X @ 393.80058752 , Z @ 919.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23349851
X @ 394.03392228 , Z @ 919.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23333476
X @ 394.26709359 , Z @ 919.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23317131
X @ 394.50010173 , Z @ 918.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23300814
X @ 394.73294700 , Z @ 918.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23284527
X @ 394.96562968 , Z @ 918.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23268268
X @ 395.19815005 , Z @ 918.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23252038
X @ 395.43050842 , Z @ 918.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23235836
X @ 395.66270505 , Z @ 918.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23219663
X @ 395.89474023 , Z @ 918.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23203519
X @ 396.12661426 , Z @ 918.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23187403
X @ 396.35832741 , Z @ 918.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23171315
X @ 396.58987996 , Z @ 918.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23155255
X @ 396.82127219 , Z @ 917.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23139223
X @ 397.05250439 , Z @ 917.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23123220
X @ 397.28357683 , Z @ 917.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23107244
X @ 397.51448980 , Z @ 917.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23091297
X @ 397.74524357 , Z @ 917.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23075377
X @ 397.97583841 , Z @ 917.40, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23059484
X @ 398.20627461 , Z @ 917.30, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23043620
X @ 398.43655244 , Z @ 917.20, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23027783
X @ 398.66667217 , Z @ 917.10, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.23011973
X @ 398.89663408 , Z @ 917.00, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.22996191
X @ 399.12643843 , Z @ 916.90, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.22980436
X @ 399.35608551 , Z @ 916.80, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.22964708
X @ 399.58557559 , Z @ 916.70, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.22949007
X @ 399.81490892 , Z @ 916.60, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.22933334
X @ 400.04408579 , Z @ 916.50, delta Z -0.10000000 -> delta X = 0.22917687


Notice that 'delta X' is not remaining constant, implying to me that the head moves a different amount for the same sled movement based on the head's distance from the bed center.

fulcrum
Plasticator
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:38 pm

Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by fulcrum » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:40 pm

DeltaCon wrote:To reassure anyone with interest in a SeeMeCNC Delta, In the past (Rostock Models V1 and V2) everybody was always busy upgrading machines with different arms, different skates, different hotends and different controllers. I think SeeMeCNC took that as criticism ;-) because the later models incorporated almost all of those mods into a new version, the V3.2. The reason for not hearing much about it, is because there really is not much to be desired after buying this machine ;-). Also much of the attention get's stolen by the Artemis.


That is good to know.

Thank you and @geneb for the information. I would have though that there would be a lot more information (in the form of reviews) of the printer if it was as good as everyone here claims. I understand that the Artemis is stealing the spotlight but it's also 2X-2.5X as expensive so, again, I would have expected *someone* to review the Rostock for the price range that it is at.

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Xenocrates
ULTIMATE 3D JEDDI
Posts: 1561
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:55 pm

Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by Xenocrates » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:17 pm

From my perspective, as the owner of effectively a Rostock max 2.2 (Duet, auto-leveling, and all the other fancy stuff I wanted), the 3.2 is a really nice machine, since it eliminates the need for something like 500$ worth of upgrades I've done (~100$ total in FSR system, ~175-200 in the duet, ~100$ in effector parts from 713maker, E3D hotend), and is a lot easier to assemble, and calibrate. All for about the same kit price. I think that's a major win for SeeMeCNC. I've not worked with a V3.2 specifically, but I have worked with a V3 for a short period of time, and the controller platform used in the V3.2. I would not hesitate to endorse it at all.
Machines:
Rostock Max V2, Duet .8.5, PT100 enabled E3D V6 and volcano, Raymond style enclosure
Automation Technology 60W laser cutter/engraver
1m X-carve router

Sic Transit Gloria Mundi
01-10011-11111100001

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joe
Printmaster!
Posts: 275
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:05 pm

Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by joe » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:18 pm

fulcrum wrote:, I would have expected *someone* to review the Rostock for the price range that it is at.
None of the big names on YouTube have done reviews on it.


Most of the "big names" on YouTube are there because manufacturers give them the machines for free to review and they are good at yakking. I'm thinking SeemeCnc doesn't play those games. The " big names" are not going to go out and buy one. Plus if average Joe does his own review it would get swallowed up in all the other crap with 100 views.

The SeemeCnc deltas are the real thing that work really well.

fulcrum
Plasticator
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:38 pm

Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by fulcrum » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:58 pm

joe wrote:
fulcrum wrote:, I would have expected *someone* to review the Rostock for the price range that it is at.
None of the big names on YouTube have done reviews on it.


Most of the "big names" on YouTube are there because manufacturers give them the machines for free to review and they are good at yakking. I'm thinking SeemeCnc doesn't play those games. The " big names" are not going to go out and buy one. Plus if average Joe does his own review it would get swallowed up in all the other crap with 100 views.

The SeemeCnc deltas are the real thing that work really well.


I am very happy to read the response on here. I am (so far) pretty much set on getting this eventually.

However, your response just doesn't make sense to me. The "big names" are big exactly because they don't just "yak". Look at some of their videos and you'll see that they actually put effort into doing serious and honest reviews. Granted, they do get the machines for free but so what? That does not diminish the value of their reviews.

You say that SeeMeCNC doesn't play "those games". What games are those? Sending a printer to someone that could influence the decision of multiple potential buyers? That's just throwing a bunch of free marketing away, isn't it?. And, it's not like they [SeeMeCNC] don't send free machines to people. I've seen YouTube videos of people who flat out say that they got their machine donated.

Just to give you an example from personal experience - some of those "big names" pointed me to the Prusa i3. That is the first time I heard about that printer (I was fairly new to the game). I was pretty set on buying one because I valued their reviews. What turned me off of it was the business practices of the company. Had any one of them ever mentioned the Rostock, I would have zeroed in on it much earlier. I am fairly sure that there are a lot of other people out there that are just starting out or looking for their next printer. Keeping the Rostock the "hidden" gem of the delta printer is hurting more than it's helping, in my opinion.

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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by geneb » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:10 am

SeeMeCNC is a pretty small company with pretty large capabilities. Every injection molded part on one of their printers was built from molds machined on-site and shot on injection molding machines that are also on-site. You're not going to find that in any 3D printer built inside the USA. I would recommend you hop over to the SeeMeCNC facebook group and ask folks there what they think of the printer. It's a self-selected sample group for sure, but they're not going to blow smoke up your shorts if they don't like something. ;)

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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by fulcrum » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:37 am

geneb wrote:SeeMeCNC is a pretty small company with pretty large capabilities. Every injection molded part on one of their printers was built from molds machined on-site and shot on injection molding machines that are also on-site. You're not going to find that in any 3D printer built inside the USA. I would recommend you hop over to the SeeMeCNC facebook group and ask folks there what they think of the printer. It's a self-selected sample group for sure, but they're not going to blow smoke up your shorts if they don't like something. ;)

g.


Thank you. I dont use Facebook and the groups is closed for anyone not logged in. I am not going to create a Facebook account just for this but thank you for the pointer. I guess I'll have to rely on all the input/info I get on the forums.

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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by joe » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:36 am

fulcrum wrote:
joe wrote:
fulcrum wrote:,

You say that SeeMeCNC doesn't play "those games". What games are those? Sending a printer to someone that could influence the decision of multiple potential buyers? That's just throwing a bunch of free marketing away, isn't it?. /quote]



Perhaps this type of youtube big name would sell some printers? :mrgreen: don't get your knickers in a knot. Just having some
Last edited by joe on Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by fulcrum » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:48 pm

joe wrote:
fulcrum wrote:
joe wrote:



Perhaps this type of youtube big name would sell some printers? :mrgreen: don't get your knickers in a knot. Just having some fun.
https://youtu.be/8fVP1VckD2U


To be honest, I thought the same when I first saw her channel. However, all kidding aside, she has done a lot for the community. Just research her work in getting Creality to understand, comply, and follow the GPL.

Despite appearances, she is respected in the 3d printing community and people familiar with her and her work place a value on her opinion. So, yes, she will sell some printers but not for the reason you think. :D

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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by geneb » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:58 pm

Naomi is pretty awesome. If it weren't for the basement dwelling incels of the world, she'd be getting the kudos she's earned.

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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by artexmg » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:12 am

I think I can add my two cents here.

I bought my first 3D printer 6 years ago from seemeCNC, a rostock Max (I think it was V0.001 LOL). It was acrylic cut and was HARD FUN to assemble, configure and make it work. However, once tuned, it produced really nice prints. But from now and then you have to re-do the calibration and that was a Pain in the Neck!

Out of frustration, I bought a Cartesian printer, just to learn that while they were easier to make them print, the results were not different than my Rostock. Most importantly, when I ran into problems with my cartesian, I couldn't find a mature and incredible community like the one here in SeemeCNC to help me out!

Since then I've been upgrading my machine (carbon fiber rods, all metal nozzle, etc) I bought a V1, V2, V3 and now an Artemis (while converting the V3 to V3.2). Also, I bought a large cartesian (20"x20"x20") ... nothing like my deltas :-)

The Artemis (I cannot talk about 3.2 yet, but I understand they are similar) is a state of the art machine. I would probably only compare against the Ultimaker.

I cannot say anything but good things about these machines, SeemeCNC AND (very important!) the community supporting it!.

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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by DeltaCon » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:08 pm

Wow, I think her top is glued to her uhm... spools.
This is the first Creality video I watched to the end ;-)
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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by fulcrum » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:50 pm

artexmg wrote:I cannot say anything but good things about these machines, SeemeCNC AND (very important!) the community supporting it!.


Thanks for the feedback!

One thing that I am still unclear about is the SE300 hotend on the v3.2. In particular, what temperatures can it reach? Can it print high temp materials?

There are a couple of posts here and here that seem to indicate that it cannot hold high temperatures (as well as the bed not being able to reach temps required for such materials).

I've also read that for high temp materials, you need the jet. However, the jet is not recommended for low temp materials. Do I really need to change the hotend every time I want to switch for low to high temp material and vice versa?

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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by geneb » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:34 am

The SE300 can hit at least 280C. The Jet liner isn't applicable to the SE300 - that's only needed for the HE280 hot end. The filament path in the SE300 is all metal, unlike the HE280, thus the liner requirement.

Note that the HE280 hot end is not used with the Rostock MAX 3.2, it's only in the v3.

If you have an actual requirement for a bed that can hit 120C+, you want an Artemis. It has an all-metal chassis and uses a 110v heater.

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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by fulcrum » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:18 pm

geneb wrote:The SE300 can hit at least 280C. The Jet liner isn't applicable to the SE300 - that's only needed for the HE280 hot end. The filament path in the SE300 is all metal, unlike the HE280, thus the liner requirement.


Oh, I didn't know that the SE300 doesn't require a jet liner. This is good news.

geneb wrote:If you have an actual requirement for a bed that can hit 120C+, you want an Artemis. It has an all-metal chassis and uses a 110v heater.


While I would love an Artemis, it's just prohibitively expensive for me. Since it doesn't come as a kit, it's more than twice the price of the v3.2 kit. Even if it did, I would suspect that the kit would be in the $2K range, which is still too much for me.

The v3.2 is specified as only 100C tops. Are you saying that it can actually hit 120C?

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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by geneb » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:55 am

The PCB-style heater that the v3.2 uses may be able to hit 100C, but I've never personally tried anything higher than 90C.
If your bed-heat need is driven by a requirement to print ABS, you should enclose the printer and that will help offset any problems associated with a lower bed temp.

An enclosure is pretty much a requirement for ABS anyway - I've ruined ABS prints in the past just by walking past a printer too quickly.

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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by fulcrum » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:36 pm

geneb wrote:The PCB-style heater that the v3.2 uses may be able to hit 100C, but I've never personally tried anything higher than 90C.
If your bed-heat need is driven by a requirement to print ABS, you should enclose the printer and that will help offset any problems associated with a lower bed temp.

An enclosure is pretty much a requirement for ABS anyway - I've ruined ABS prints in the past just by walking past a printer too quickly.

g.


This is not good!! I am kind of the opinion that a modern 3d printer should not need an enclose for ABS. ABS should be printable without an enclosure if your bed can hit 105-120C and reliably maintain that temp. Modern day printers should be able to do that.

I guess a bed header upgrade might be the first upgrade that will be needed for the v3.2 :D

(To be honest, what I would really want is an upgraded header with a heat spreader topped by a flex sheet PEI surface like the Buildtak.)

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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by DeltaCon » Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:20 am

High bed temperature will sure help against ABS shrinkage in a real air-still environment, but is primarily needed for a good bed-adhesion. You cannot heat-up against flowing cool air at 50mm above bed level. Like Gene says, you will ruin your print just by walking by. bedheat is no solution for that, an enclosure is though, in 2 regards: 1) it will prevent room-temperature air to touch the print (and cause immediate shrink of the part) and 2) the temperature of the air around the part wil be much higher due ti it being stuck in your enclosure. That makes the heating of the part by the bed a whole lot more efficient. I don't think ANY of that has to do with a printer being modern.
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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by geneb » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:05 am

fulcrum wrote:This is not good!! I am kind of the opinion that a modern 3d printer should not need an enclose for ABS. ABS should be printable without an enclosure if your bed can hit 105-120C and reliably maintain that temp. Modern day printers should be able to do that.


Physics disagrees with your opinion. ;)

Without an enclosure, that super hot bed isn't going to help beyond a centimeter or two. It's not a fault of the printer, it's how heat dissipation works. If you can't "hold" the heat in a specific place, that heat is going to try it's best to heat the whole room.

Look at any high-end commercial offering from the likes of Stratasys or 3D Systems. Every ABS printer they offer includes not only an enclosure, but heaters that are specifically dedicated to heating the interior of the printer to well over 100C. The heated bed keeps the part in place and the "oven" ensures that as the ABS cools, it will do so symmetrically and in a controlled manner.

Asymmetric cooling is what kills ABS prints. As ABS cools, it shrinks[*]. When it cools asymmetrically, it can literally tear itself off a bed plate, or split in half along layer lines.

The barrier to getting an affordable printer with a heated chamber is patents. Until the patents that Stratasys (and probably 3D Systems) expire, there's no legal way for companies like SeeMeCNC to offer a heated chamber - Stratasys certainly isn't going to license the patents to a competitor. Even if they did, those license fees would likely put the printer into the $50k+ range.

Now all that being said, people can and do print successfully with ABS, but they do it with an enclosure of some kind. ;)

g.

* ABS can shrink anywhere from 6 to 11 percent, depending on the formulation of the ABS you're printing with. This is something most folks don't take into account when printing a part. This results in much teeth gnashing and blame storming when the part comes out under size.
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Re: Rostock MAX v3.2 reviews

Post by DeltaCon » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:28 am

geneb wrote:The barrier to getting an affordable printer with a heated chamber is patents. Until the patents that Stratasys (and probably 3D Systems) expire, there's no legal way for companies like SeeMeCNC to offer a heated chamber


I did not know that, thanks for the info. On the other hand it would be (for companies like SeeMeCNC) be very easy to "accommodate without advertising" a system for easy placement of home-brew sidepanels. Simply exchanging the 20x20 extrusions for 40x20 and revert to a TrickLaserstyle carriage that does not fully go around the extrusion makes it VERY easy to fit acrylic panels into the not-used V-Slots of the extrusions. For the Artemis that would have been a no-brainer since by using linear rails the sideways pointed V-Slots are already empty to be used for something else. The only thing that is wrong about the Artemis in that regard is the fact that they designed a triangular base instead of a round one.

@SteveWygant: this Idea is free of charge, just send me the betatest of your new design and I will provide further "Home-Brew instructions" to the community! :lol:
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