adarcher's build/troubleshooting

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adarcher
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adarcher's build/troubleshooting

Postby adarcher » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:30 pm

* EDIT
This post turned into a troubleshooting thread for my build so I'll recap what problems were talked about here and the solutions.

  • Grinding noise in Z tower
    wire pins weren't tight in the connector that goes to the duetwifi, take them out -- gently pry out the locking burrs so they properly lock into the connector
  • Stringing
    multiple reasons: ptfe insert in the SE300 was over tightened and kinked, eztruder aluminum exit component shifted when retracting, thermistor possibly unreliable -- all replaced
  • FSR not triggering at printing temperatures
    Calibrate at a lower temp, then set the temp up higher
  • Belts loose
    User error, I was able to tighten them up with the help of a screw driver and some gentle nudging.
*****

OK, this isn't my first rodeo, but I don't see anything in the way of the motors or belts. The movements are very "jagged" or "stuttering". I'm afraid to do the First Probe. It skitted across the bed and then probed a few times but sounded horrible so I emergency stopped.

Also, the Z tower homes down first... I know, check the wires, but they are all correct as per the instructions: Blue, Red, Green, Black.

I had some really close blue/green wires, but I quadruple checked in good lighting--I'll check again after posting.

Anyone else get this problem and know what I did wrong?

*edit, here's a photo of the duet in case it helps.
And, a youtube upload (never did one before...)
https://youtu.be/wivW865AECE

IMG_0090.JPG
messy wires as I reconnect and attempt to debug.


*edit2, I forgot to mention that I did download the latest config.zip and upload it... I've got the first probe macro.

*edit3, I got it to accept a homing so I could test moving again. The Z axis alternates from going in one direction then the other every time I ask it to move in the same direction.
Last edited by adarcher on Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:35 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby geneb » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:40 pm

How does it go when you home all the axes? Is it just the Z axis you're having a problem with?

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby adarcher » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:46 pm

Just added a video and a picture.

I've only tried homing all axes at the same time. I tried moving 100mm up and down and it sounds horrible too.

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby dc42 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:10 am

I suggest you test the tower motors individually as described at https://duet3d.com/wiki/Configuring_Rep ... dividually.

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby AlanZ » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:23 am

First thing I noticed in your video... the USB cable is connected to the Artemis.

Is it also connected to the computer? If so, it should not be... that caused grief for me when doing the first probe... it kept timing out. So remove the USB cable entirely once in Duet, then refresh the Duet web page.

I don't know if this is what is affecting your build, but it was worth mentioning.

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby adarcher » Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:31 pm

Thanks for the tip, I thought about that and disconnected from pronterface at least. I’ll try again with out it at all and test the towers like dc42 said.

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby adarcher » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:46 pm

dc42 wrote:I suggest you test the tower motors individually as described at https://duet3d.com/wiki/Configuring_Rep ... dividually.


Thanks, It's only the Z that is noisy and alternating. I checked the pins with a multimeter and red/blue and black/green are the two pairs.

It's the motor and not the board thankfully. I swapped the motors with another axis and it's the same motor that is noisy.

Have a resource that can help me further trouble shoot the motor?

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby adarcher » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:51 pm

OK, I think I solved it. The spring side of the red pin wasn't super springy so the contact was not consistent. I pulled it out, bent it out a bit and now it's good.

It's now taking it's time doing the first probe... I'll post again if I get a first print :)

Thanks for all the help!

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby adarcher » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:51 pm

Well, I got a first print that night, but it was all stringy.

Been repeating the model with different retraction settings ever since.

I started with the cura 2.6.2 profile for se300 from the guide. I increased the travel speed and varied the most of the retraction specifics and even the temp (started at my usual 210 and went lower).

I compared it to a “out of box” settings print from my new prusa mk3, and have been disappointed. Not going to give up, but really wishing it would at least be as good as my old v2. Here’s a pic of most of my tries. The blue and silver print the same on the prusa. Blue is the prusa print. The silver next to it is the Artemis with my old v2 settings. Same speeds at 60mm/s. All the rest to the right are tests.

34320F8E-2A96-4833-9F63-106C7DD69A62.jpeg


I’m having breakfast so I can’t post settings. But they really are just the imported values from the guide.

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby wepollock » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:15 pm

Did you do a PID Tune on the hotend?

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby adarcher » Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:12 am

You know, I can’t remember. I half think so. I’ll do it again to make sure.

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby dc42 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:19 am

What retraction settings are you using, and how long is the Bowden tube? Are you using pressure advance?

On my delta I print PLA at 205C first layer, 200C or 195C after that; but that is with an E3Dv6 hot end.

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby adarcher » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:04 pm

Looking around for pressure advance, looks like a duet setting... I'll look into it.

I've tried 3.5-12mm retraction, stuck to 6.5
25-60mm/s retraction speed, right now it's at 25 since that's what the profile has.
I upped the travel speed from 100 to 400mm/s and that seemed to do the most at reducing the strings.
Bowden is about 400mm I think, it's the stock one.

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby dc42 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:01 pm

adarcher wrote:Looking around for pressure advance, looks like a duet setting... I'll look into it.

I've tried 3.5-12mm retraction, stuck to 6.5
25-60mm/s retraction speed, right now it's at 25 since that's what the profile has.
I upped the travel speed from 100 to 400mm/s and that seemed to do the most at reducing the strings.
Bowden is about 400mm I think, it's the stock one.


Higher retraction speed helps control stringing. I use 60mm/sec and 0.25mm Z lift. The Bowden tube on my delta is 600mm long. I was using 7mm retraction, but I now use 5mm and pressure advance 0.2.

HTH David

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby artexmg » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:04 am

dc42 wrote:
adarcher wrote:Looking around for pressure advance, looks like a duet setting... I'll look into it.

I've tried 3.5-12mm retraction, stuck to 6.5
25-60mm/s retraction speed, right now it's at 25 since that's what the profile has.
I upped the travel speed from 100 to 400mm/s and that seemed to do the most at reducing the strings.
Bowden is about 400mm I think, it's the stock one.


Higher retraction speed helps control stringing. I use 60mm/sec and 0.25mm Z lift. The Bowden tube on my delta is 600mm long. I was using 7mm retraction, but I now use 5mm and pressure advance 0.2.

HTH David



My 2 cents: I use low speed and low retraction (~4mm) for PLA, at least for long prints. This prevents the typical nozzle clog that makes the print to "print in the air". There is an old thread about it, using E3D (thanks to mhackney, of course!) that explains all the technical details and plastic/fluids physics, etc. But, for me just remembering "slow and short for PLA" had worked ever since.

Cheers!

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby artexmg » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:08 am

adarcher wrote:OK, I think I solved it. The spring side of the red pin wasn't super springy so the contact was not consistent. I pulled it out, bent it out a bit and now it's good.

It's now taking its time doing the first probe... I'll post again if I get a first print :)

Thanks for all the help!


The exact same thing happened to me, ugly sound and the Y axis going down.

I first thought it was a reverse problem after applying the new settings, so, I reversed by firmware, but I got the same trouble. Started switching motors, and then it worked ... for a while. This is when I supposed it was a loose connector ... tightened all of them and now it is working.

This should be included in troubleshooting, as I am sure it is going to happen.

Cheers!

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby adarcher » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:51 pm

artexmg wrote:
My 2 cents: I use low speed and low retraction (~4mm) for PLA, at least for long prints. This prevents the typical nozzle clog that makes the print to "print in the air". There is an old thread about it, using E3D (thanks to mhackney, of course!) that explains all the technical details and plastic/fluids physics, etc. But, for me just remembering "slow and short for PLA" had worked ever since.

Cheers!


I'll try that, my artemis is mostly just gathering dust right now because I couldn't stop the stringing + I've been busy so I didn't want to waste it printing another test string mess.

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby dc42 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:57 am

Have you tried reducing the extrusion temperature to control the stringing?

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby adarcher » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:53 pm

dc42 wrote:Have you tried reducing the extrusion temperature to control the stringing?


Just tried 195 with the new cura 3.1 profile... no change. I think I'll just only print things that don't care if there are strings.

I spent hours today trying to test only for the test prints to fall off the bed most of the time too. Looks like I can't set the z height with G30 with the duetwifi.

On my V2/Rambo:
G28; G0 X0 Y0 Z5; G30; M500;
at the start of my print would give me a new z height for the temps I was currently running. Is there an equivalent? I can't run G32 with the bed heater on, the FRS's won't trigger.

I'm wondering if the Artemis has a special firmware, or if I can just update it myself to the latest.

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby geneb » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:18 pm

I'm really surprised to see this. I've been printing pretty much constantly the last couple of weeks and I've had zero stringing issues. I'm using the 3.1 SE300 profiles from the git repo with Atomic Gunmetal Gray PLA @ 200C.

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby adarcher » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:44 pm

geneb wrote:I'm really surprised to see this. I've been printing pretty much constantly the last couple of weeks and I've had zero stringing issues. I'm using the 3.1 SE300 profiles from the git repo with Atomic Gunmetal Gray PLA @ 200C.

g.


I know! I'm depressed when I go on Facebook and see the photos in the Artemis group...

I think I just fixed my 1st layer issue, I was calling G28 after my G30 for some reason in the cura start section. Took that out and I'm seeing a beautiful 1st layer right now.

I'm thinking I might actually buy some Atomic filament from SeeMeCNC to take out the filament brand variable next. I'm using esun, hatchbox, and whatever came with my prusa mk3.

I know part of my issues are my own doing, since I work 80-100 hr/s week and just freakin tired when I get a chance to "play" at home--that should change in the next few months hopefully.

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby geneb » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:30 am

In my start gcode in Cura, I'm setting the Z max speed to 30000, then a G28, then at the end of the file I call a G32. I calibrate before every print. I've also gone to a 16 point calibration (10 outside, 6 inside) and that's been working very well. I can print the full bed surface on bare glass that way.

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby Bones056 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:10 am

And How do we get to that 16 point Cal? Is that the Mesh Grid Compensation? Thanks

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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby geneb » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:24 am

Here you go:
G30 P0 X0.00 Y140.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P1 X89.99 Y107.25 Z-99999 H0
G30 P2 X137.87 Y24.31 Z-99999 H0
G30 P3 X121.24 Y-70.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P4 X47.88 Y-131.56 Z-99999 H0
G30 P5 X-47.88 Y-131.56 Z-99999 H0
G30 P6 X-121.24 Y-70.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P7 X-137.87 Y24.31 Z-99999 H0
G30 P8 X-89.99 Y107.25 Z-99999 H0
G30 P9 X0.00 Y70.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P10 X60.62 Y35.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P11 X60.62 Y-35.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P12 X0.00 Y-70.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P13 X-60.62 Y-35.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P14 X-60.62 Y35.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P15 X0 Y0 Z-99999 S6

Don't put a G28 after this.
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Re: First homing: horrible grinding sounds

Postby wepollock » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:34 pm

G thanks for the bed leveling script.

In Re stringing

In terms of stringing it is as near non-existent in the Seemecnc Cura profile as it gets. that is with cheap Novamaker PLA which was OEMed by the now defunct Orb Polymer

Before changing any parameters

(1) I would check to see that my physical filament path was clear of friction
(2) and that the extruder gear was grippy.

Physical issue being eliminated, move to software;

(3) PID tune the hot end
(4) print one of these guys out for a baseline

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2640671

(5) repeat and rinse, keeping track of each and every parameter change in the slicer software on a notepad or spreadsheet.

----------




I am at the point where I am getting minor-minor hairline stringing with Simplify3d. I am still tuning my Simplify3d profile because it has some features that Cura does not have.

There is one checkbox in Simplify3d which rocks in terms of stringing. "Avoid crossing outline for travel movements." You can see from the attached picture that, if I am going to get striging it is going to occur within the infill, or between support and support.

I am finding that Cura is much more tunable in terms of parameters, but on balance I have much more visual control of infill and supports in Simplify3d. Simplify3d also allows me to have multiple profiles in a print so I can change parameters as needed. My models tend to have holes for screws and bolts, Cura is better behaved because it retracts up and over interior bolt holes while simplify3d goes around them. Some tuning parameters in Simplify 3d include https://forum.simplify3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=1953 On balance, Cura is better in how it handles how the interior meets a perimeter.


Simplify3d also allows you to have multiple profiles in a print so you can change parameters as needed. If you needed to you could compare different settings applied to different layers of https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2640671


If I get stringing it will be mostly within the model or from support to support. Here I have angled my support so it is not running in the direction of a layer line.
Image


Image


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