Why?

An affordable delta DIY kit made with high quality electronics/parts/hardware
Qdeathstar
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Why?

Postby Qdeathstar » Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:54 pm

I looked at the specs of this and im not sure why anyone would get this over a Eris or Rostock Max.. its sort of super low end? Hacker Series? eh....

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Re: Why?

Postby AlanZ » Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:13 pm

Half the price of a Rostock Max, larger build volume than an Eris... nice hacker platform.

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joe
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Re: Why?

Postby joe » Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:43 pm

Why? Because these dudes need to make money and are probably pissed that the cheap Chinese junk is biting a hole in their wallet. They can throw the parts in a box, offer limited warranty and hide behind the " No phone support is available with any hacker series machine" so once the kit is sold they don't have to worry about spending more man hours trouble shooting newbie problems. That saves them a ton on wages for phone support.
I think it is a great idea. (for them)

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Xenocrates
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Re: Why?

Postby Xenocrates » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:07 am

Honestly, if I was one a tight budget, I would buy it over an Orion or Eris. Cheaper to ship, seems to say it comes with 2 sets of arms, and it's autolevel capable. I'm not sure I like the open electrical bay, but really there's not a lot of power moving, and for the cost,the parts are pretty good. Say 120 for the mini rambo, ~10 each for motors, so ~40, 35~ extruder, ~100 for the hotend (This is less than market, but they don't have to assemble it and they don't sell it for cost), ~20 for extrusion, plus random hardware, glass, and laser cut parts. Could you list the parts cheaper on a BOM? Yep. Does that get you a warranty on the parts, or ensure you won't lose your savings on shipping from random places? Nope.

It's not like they don't offer other printers at other price points. It's an American produced option (At very least packaged, designed and laser cut in the US), at a reasonable price. It has extendibility (As they note, it can use an Orion heated bed, and probably other parts too) I'll pay the slight premium for a packaged kit with some support, a warranty, and manual. (I found it came to 380+ without including fasteners, glass or laser cut parts, but you could probably get parts cheaper)
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Re: Why?

Postby Jimustanguitar » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:56 am

I'm sure that the Chinese race to the bottom is part of it. I actually quite like that SeeMeCNC's philosophy is the opposite of that, and I'm willing to spend more for it. They strive to make as many things in house (Indiana) as they can, buy authentic components like the Rambo board from the original designer himself, and to use premium components across the board. They don't sell different quality levels, they sell different configurations, and it's hard to make that fit into different price ranges without using a completely different platform like the Eris.

That's one of the main reasons that I think the Orion was never sold as a kit. If you throw a Rambo board, 4 steppers, an extruder, and a hot end into a box, shipping it with different sized wooden pieces and extrusions doesn't create much of a price difference... But, a more minimal design with a Rambo Mini, no heated bed, less time on the laser, etc. creates the possibility of that lower price point without cutting corners or compromising the integrity of the included components. Plus, if they're only advertising to veteran builders and DIYers, they can skim off a bit of the customer support overhead that's built into the other prices.

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Re: Why?

Postby Qdeathstar » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:44 am

Well, personally I think trying to compete with China in the low end of the market is sort of foolish. They are going to win that market. I was hoping the hacker series would be the v3 without electronics, hotend, extruder... or maybe an all metal high end printer with 32 bit electronic.

If your looking for a low end printer the head delta is probably a better deal than this one. If the are going low end, throw out the rambo and get a ramps...

China is a race to the bottom, but this seems like a race to the middle.

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Re: Why?

Postby mhackney » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:02 am

They spell it out here: https://www.seemecnc.com/collections/ha ... inter-kits
and explicitly mentions low cost imports as a partial reason.

I agree with @Qdeathstar - I'd like to see just the mechanical/frame kit with no electronics. Let the hacker provide steppers (I'm ONLY using .9° steppers for all deltas moving forward), extruder (BondTech QR for the printing connoisseur), hotend (the E3D V6 is still the defacto standard for reliability and performance imho), controller (yes, I'll say it, Duet with RepRapFirmware) and probing system (I'm still committed to FSR probing for consistency and reliability). Frankly, the cost of the imports even with their low end electronics is so low that you can buy one, build the frame and toss the electronics and buy the good stuff. I have 2 mini kossels built this way. They are always going to win on price if they throw in low end electronics. So change the playing field, focus on the mechanics - which is one of SeeMeCNC's core competencies with laser cut and injection molded parts, innovative arms and ball joints, etc. This is the stuff they have a leg up with.

If they created a hacker kit without this stuff, I bet they could lower the price to $299 with a higher profit margin. And real hackers would appreciate not being forced into a mini RAMBo and/or HE280.

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Re: Why?

Postby Xenocrates » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:50 am

mhackney wrote:They spell it out here: https://www.seemecnc.com/collections/ha ... inter-kits
and explicitly mentions low cost imports as a partial reason.

I agree with @Qdeathstar - I'd like to see just the mechanical/frame kit with no electronics. Let the hacker provide steppers (I'm ONLY using .9° steppers for all deltas moving forward), extruder (BondTech QR for the printing connoisseur), hotend (the E3D V6 is still the defacto standard for reliability and performance imho), controller (yes, I'll say it, Duet with RepRapFirmware) and probing system (I'm still committed to FSR probing for consistency and reliability). Frankly, the cost of the imports even with their low end electronics is so low that you can buy one, build the frame and toss the electronics and buy the good stuff. I have 2 mini kossels built this way. They are always going to win on price if they throw in low end electronics. So change the playing field, focus on the mechanics - which is one of SeeMeCNC's core competencies with laser cut and injection molded parts, innovative arms and ball joints, etc. This is the stuff they have a leg up with.

If they created a hacker kit without this stuff, I bet they could lower the price to $299 with a higher profit margin. And real hackers would appreciate not being forced into a mini RAMBo and/or HE280.


I second that, and I think that since they said hacker series, rather than just "Here's our DIY machine, have fun" suggests that they might be open to it. I would also be open to seeing them have a package that has the T slot hardware to go with their already available V3 frame kit, just so that you would have a complete set of parts. Then again, I would also love seeing a cable duct added on somewhere on any H series machine in the Max's size class, since a number of us end up adding extra cabling over time.
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626Pilot
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Re: Why?

Postby 626Pilot » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:22 pm

They should add options to leave out things like the controller, motors, power supply, and hot end. This would be pretty great for a backup printer, but like mhackney says, I don't use 1.8-degree motors anymore, and I'd rather bring my own controller and hot end.

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Re: Why?

Postby geeksam » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:00 pm

Speaking as someone whose kit is scheduled for delivery tomorrow... I've built and upgraded the heck out of a Printrbot kit, and wanted a delta kit I could build with my daughter. I ordered the h2 on the basis of a personal recommendation for the Max (but got the H2 because I didn't want to pay twice the price for more volume than I'll know what to do with), and the fact that the company is US-based—so if I need a replacement part, I don't have to wait a month for shipping from China. I'm pretty sure I can build this thing myself, and if not, I have a local user group I can go to for help.

Mostly, though, I'm replying to this thread because seeing the phrase "real hacker" used was... disappointing. Sure, most of y'all probably have better hardware hacking skills than I do. At the same time, I probably have better Ruby skills than most of you. Who cares? My choice of kit isn't preventing you from enjoying your badassery. We can all help each other with what we're good at, and it's a lot easier to ask for that help when those already in the community aren't busy gatekeeping.

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Re: Why?

Postby IMBoring25 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:37 am

The "Hacker series" designation kind of invites that turn of phrase to describe people who have distinct preferences for some of the higher-dollar electronic components on which SeeMeCNC is just an intermediary.

I'm 100% sure nothing untoward was meant by it. Michael demonstrates a great deal of innovation, commitment to the community, and patience with those with less experience.


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