Duet setup - instructions in progress

IMBoring25
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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby IMBoring25 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:40 am

In fairness, the locking connectors were a rolling change on the 0.8.5. I have one of the early ones and it's very obvious why the change was made.

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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby dc42 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:06 pm

One possibility is to buy extra long header pins such as these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Adafruit-Extr ... 1774771423. Put one end in the terminal block, then common Dupont cable sockets will fit on the other ends. But it doesn't give you locking connectors.

Or just screw the wires into the terminal blocks. Or change them for Molex KK connectors like I did, if you have good enough desoldering equipment.

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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby DeltaCon » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:42 am

dc42 wrote:Or change them for Molex KK connectors like I did, if you have good enough desoldering equipment.

Hmm, I think it is more my skills that lack... Equipment can be bought ;-)

If I go for the header pins, the existing latching connectors that go on the Rambo will fit (without latching of course), won't they?
The board will probably not fit into the base of the Max anymore though.
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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby Xenocrates » Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:05 pm

DeltaCon wrote:
dc42 wrote:Or change them for Molex KK connectors like I did, if you have good enough desoldering equipment.

Hmm, I think it is more my skills that lack... Equipment can be bought ;-)

If I go for the header pins, the existing latching connectors that go on the Rambo will fit (without latching of course), won't they?
The board will probably not fit into the base of the Max anymore though.


They will fit without polarizing or latching, and the board may fit but not at the standard mount angle (Hell, it's close with just hotend wiring coming out the top of the .8.5)
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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby aerouta » Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:38 pm

I have been working on setting up the Duet board with the FSR probes. I have followed the steps provided for mounting and installing the FSR probes. When I run calibration using bed radius of 100mm my r-squared value is about 0.06, but when I go up to a bed radius of 140 the r-square value almost doubles to ~0.11. Is this to be expected? I have checked and recheck the mechanical setup of the mounts and the printer and I don't see what could be causing the poor calibration results.

relevant printer setup:
Trick laser 300mm arms and aluminum ball joint platform
injection molded cheapskates
legacy metal stepper gears
Onxyv3/Aluminum plate/glass

Below is the calibration routine

Code: Select all

; bed.g file for RepRapFirmware, generated by Escher3D calculator
; 16 points, 6 factors, probing radius: 140, probe offset (0, 0)
G30 P0 X0.00 Y140.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P1 X89.99 Y107.25 Z-99999 H0
G30 P2 X137.87 Y24.31 Z-99999 H0
G30 P3 X121.24 Y-70.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P4 X47.88 Y-131.56 Z-99999 H0
G30 P5 X-47.88 Y-131.56 Z-99999 H0
G30 P6 X-121.24 Y-70.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P7 X-137.87 Y24.31 Z-99999 H0
G30 P8 X-89.99 Y107.25 Z-99999 H0
G30 P9 X0.00 Y70.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P10 X60.62 Y35.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P11 X60.62 Y-35.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P12 X0.00 Y-70.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P13 X-60.62 Y-35.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P14 X-60.62 Y35.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P15 X0 Y0 Z-99999 S6

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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby dc42 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:01 am

Your results are not unusual because most geometrical errors in Delta printer builds cause larger errors further from the centre.

Also check that your FSRs trigger at the same (negative) trigger height at each probe point, and if they don't, use H corrections in the G30 commands in your bed.g file.

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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby aerouta » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:17 pm

I tested doing a 10 calibration, 3 peripheral and 6 mid way and i got an r-squared of ~0.04. This supports what you said. Is there a way is improve the accuracy or geometrical errors of the printer further from the center?

Giving the current state of the printer is it recommend to use more a less peripheral points for calibration? I do frequently print object near the perimeter of the build plate.

Can others who are using Duet and FSR post their r2 values at radius >130mm with >=6 peripheral points? I would like to make sure I not chasing wind attempting to fix this?

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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby Micael » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:46 am

aerouta wrote:I tested doing a 10 calibration, 3 peripheral and 6 mid way and i got an r-squared of ~0.04. This supports what you said. Is there a way is improve the accuracy or geometrical errors of the printer further from the center?

Giving the current state of the printer is it recommend to use more a less peripheral points for calibration? I do frequently print object near the perimeter of the build plate.

Can others who are using Duet and FSR post their r2 values at radius >130mm with >=6 peripheral points? I would like to make sure I not chasing wind attempting to fix this?


Correctly setting the H values can make a significant difference, for example my FSR setup with a 125mm radius set can easily vary from -0.05 to 0.03 in relation to the center probe point (which only triggers after about 0.17mm), and this is with the JohnSL board set to maximum sensitivity, I have seen much much worse values.

Try and follow this:

viewtopic.php?f=111&t=9299&start=125#p85565

I would just make a few modifications to what the mhackney says there, one is to remove the height of the paper (I use a 0.05mm feeler gauge) from the value you got on the probe point, so if you got a probe point of -0.25 but you are using a piece of paper with 0.10mm thickness, clearly the probe point is actually just -0.15 from the surface, since you won't have the paper there when you start to print.
Also try and get a reasonably consistent drag feel on the nozzle with the paper, the amount of trouble you have on this phase will pay off when it comes time to do the auto calibration.

The other modification is to pay attention to when he says this "H = (trigger height measured at the point) - (trigger height at the bed center)" he means positive values, not negative ones (I think), I started by doing something like H = (-0.25) - (-0.22) = -0.03 when in reality what I should have been doing (I think) was this H = (0.25) - (0.22) = 0.03, as soon as I inverted the values in my bed.g file it all started to work fine, hopefully you will save yourself several days of messing around like I did.

The final thing is use this macro after you have set the tip to be at "paper height" from the surface:

Code: Select all

G92 Z0
G1 Z5
G30 S-1
G1 Z5
G30 S-1
G1 Z5
G30 S-1
G1 Z5


It should save you some time, what it does is basically sets the height value to 0, then moves the printer 5mm up and probes 3 times lifting 5mm up between each probe point, and ofc finally lifting again 5mm, this is so you can then sum the values and average (values get printed to console) at the end. Also makes sure you don't screw up those steps.

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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby mhackney » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:13 am

I agree - subtract the thickness of your paper/gauge. I use rolling paper which is incredibly thin and easy to calibrate consistent drag with.

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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby aerouta » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:10 am

Try and follow this:

viewtopic.php?f=111&t=9299&start=125#p85565

I would just make a few modifications to what the mhackney says there, one is to remove the height of the paper (I use a 0.05mm feeler gauge) from the value you got on the probe point, so if you got a probe point of -0.25 but you are using a piece of paper with 0.10mm thickness, clearly the probe point is actually just -0.15 from the surface, since you won't have the paper there when you start to print.
Also try and get a reasonably consistent drag feel on the nozzle with the paper, the amount of trouble you have on this phase will pay off when it comes time to do the auto calibration.

The other modification is to pay attention to when he says this "H = (trigger height measured at the point) - (trigger height at the bed center)" he means positive values, not negative ones (I think), I started by doing something like H = (-0.25) - (-0.22) = -0.03 when in reality what I should have been doing (I think) was this H = (0.25) - (0.22) = 0.03, as soon as I inverted the values in my bed.g file it all started to work fine, hopefully you will save yourself several days of messing around like I did.

The final thing is use this macro after you have set the tip to be at "paper height" from the surface:

Code: Select all

G92 Z0
G1 Z5
G30 S-1
G1 Z5
G30 S-1
G1 Z5
G30 S-1
G1 Z5


It should save you some time, what it does is basically sets the height value to 0, then moves the printer 5mm up and probes 3 times lifting 5mm up between each probe point, and ofc finally lifting again 5mm, this is so you can then sum the values and average (values get printed to console) at the end. Also makes sure you don't screw up those steps.



Thanks, I truly was hoping to never do the bloody paper test again but I will give this a try. Does this need to be done every time you change your print bed?

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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby Micael » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:46 am

Depends on what we are talking about here, if we are talking about just taking out the glass and putting it back in the same position (rotation and same side up), not really as long as you have a solid fsr setup, if we are talking about adding an heat spreader, some pei or maybe even taking out the bed from the supports to do something, then yeah probably, doesn't necessarily mean you won't be able to print until you redo it, just that you will lose accuracy.

You could also try grid bed compensation which is in the 1.17 firmware, if your bed setup is really solid and the fsr system is very even then it should work better than the g32 process, and while you will still need to do the g29 (grid bed compensation) every time you make a change to the bed, that process is automatic so its not a big deal.

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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby aerouta » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:58 am

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

I'm using your marco but I am not getting any readout to the console after the G30 S-1 command. The FSR triggers but no info is displayed. I am using the web console to send the commands. Any thoughts?

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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby Micael » Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:17 am

That's strange when I use my macro, and one that I created by copy pasting what I put here I get the following in the G-Code Console of the web interface, :

Code: Select all

3:03:30 PM Stopped at height -0.980 mm
3:03:26 PM Stopped at height -0.976 mm
3:03:23 PM M98 P0:/macros/Setting H
Stopped at height -0.951 mm


Obviously you should expect wildly different numbers, have even tried using it at 100mm above the heatbed to see if I would still get numbers from it and yeah still worked just fine here (thought M208 would stop this, but apparently not).
You could try putting the lines of the macro 1 by 1 to see if you get a readout, but honestly have no idea why it isn't working.

EDITED: Oh yeah just remembered if you refresh the duet page or open another one while doing a macro, or a g28 or anything that is going to report, you won't get to see the report of it, so try and keep it to one tab, since that might be the issue.

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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby aerouta » Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:43 am

upgraded to the lastest firmware (1.17RC3) solved the issue. I am now getting the expected console messages.

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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby aerouta » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:44 am

Finally had time to get some work done on calibration when i notice this strange behavior, at least to me. I have posted a link below to a YouTube video. While doing the paper grip test I noticed that it was difficult for me to get consistent results. Then I noticed that the friction/force on the paper was varying significantly without any commands sent to the printer. I seemed to coincide with the bang bang control of the heat bed and sure enough, turned of the heat bed and no more fluctuations. Once the head bed is on, regardless of bed temperature it seems to lower the nozzle slightly.

In the video you will hear the friction on the paper increase at 12 and 25 secs


https://youtu.be/17Dt0IXVa1s

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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby DeltaCon » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:14 am

That's why I really don't understand anyone to get consistent results after cold calibrating... Also my V2 has issues with first layers at different bed temps. Your bed or bed supports work under temperature loads. Bang-Bang for me creates a bandwidth of -5 to +5 degrees C at 60 degrees set temp (at 20 Volts), despite a alu heatspreader. Change your pwm for the bed to dead-time instead. Look here https://www.repetier.com/dead-time-control/ for determining the dead-time variable (there is only one variable!). This works wonders for me, with a bandwith of -0.5 to +0.5 degrees C.
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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby aerouta » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:11 am

I was thinking more of EMI from the power supply. I don't think 1c in temp change would cause that amount of variation in the nozzle/bed positions?

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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby mhackney » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:51 am

This is why I do heat everything up, let it stabilize and then calibrate / probe. My probing scripts all turn off the heaters so I don't have to think about it. The calibration takes 30 seconds so the drop in temperature is negligible and the bed holds its heat for quite some time and that is the important thing to have heated due to its large area. There really is negligible contribution due to expansion of the nozzle/hotend when at temperature, it's that big heated bed that moves around.

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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby DeltaCon » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:48 am

aerouta wrote:I was thinking more of EMI from the power supply. I don't think 1c in temp change would cause that amount of variation in the nozzle/bed positions?

No, 1c (using dead-time) does not, but 10c (using bang-bang) does...
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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby aerouta » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:33 pm

I am not getting 10c variations, the temp is the bed is relatively constant ~1c using bang bang. But I can try using the alternate method.

Any other suggestions on what may cause the issue seen in the video?

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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby mhackney » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:40 pm

Might it simply be current fluctuations due to the bed heater are affecting the steppers?

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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby DeltaCon » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:07 pm

If that is true, I guess we are talking about skipping steps. The error would have to built up instead of fluctuating up and down wouldn't it? But certainly worth to investigate.
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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby aerouta » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:32 pm

mhackney wrote:Might it simply be current fluctuations due to the bed heater are affecting the steppers?


True, i'm using a single 24v psu with the 24 to 12v regulator you recommended. I have read some mix reviews on the PSU I'm currently using so I intend on trying out another PSU.

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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby mhackney » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:35 pm

Simply get a 12V PSU and use both. That's what I do on my V1.

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Re: Duet setup - instructions in progress

Postby IMBoring25 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:11 pm

I'm using bang-bang also with small fluctuations and no artifacts on two different machines.


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