BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby Xenocrates » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:17 am

That's one pump per mount, and three mounts (with pumps) mounted on a mount mount, unless I miss my guess.

But if the restrictions were different between the branches, then the air would mostly go down the least restricted branch (until it reaches flow capacity) of the manifold, as it will take the path of least resistance. Would be annoying to do a manifold for that (unless you regulated air volume as well, which would also be a pain.)
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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby Windshadow » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:36 am

good point. i have not used aquarium air pumps for about 50 years i recall the fish tank had a bunch of gadgets in it in addition to the the air stone such as a pirate chest that had its own air line valve to set how often it filled with air to flip open the lid.... very droll. the tetras seemed to like i think but it was a long time ago.

i have air in my shop plumbed in underground from the noisy air compressor out in the barn but that would be overkill. i expect an air brush pump could supply several of these tubes as well if the low pressure and volume of these pumps was not adequate for a given situation

if i was smarter i would have waited until mine arrived in a few days and tried it before i started speculating with no data. :oops:

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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby Xenocrates » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:31 am

An airbrush compressor would almost undoubtedly supply enough SCFM for multiple. But they largely aren't designed for terribly high duty cycles, and some are kinda loud (I have a cheap one in the house, as there are 3 compressors of various sizes I can use to drive paint out in the barn) I would suggest spending a bit, and getting on of the small tanked airbrush compressors, such as Badger's Aspire Pro (Badger Airbrush Co. unfortunately doesn't manufacture them in the US, which is unusual for them, but they do QC and customer support in the US). Iwata also makes some good compressors, but they are more expensive (400$+). Assuming 2L/M is the flow rate you want, the Badger unit can handle 11 of them (23L/m). It also has a nice sized tank on it, so it won't be 100% duty cycle if the flow is regulated. They make great equipment, and employ good people. If you have the money to throw some at the problem, and don't want to deal with noise, I suggest their offerings. Never had a problem with their kit I didn't cause myself, and they do some good work to make it right even so.
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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby Jassper » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:12 am

The picture actually shows one of my Pump boards for my Holding Tank monitoring system I make for RV's. I use the same pump to measure water levels. But it shows how the mounts work. The small mount holds one pump and the other holds two pumps. The actual mount is the yellow part and they are wire tied to a black ABS back board that fits into a 6x6 box.

I'm still experimenting with pumps, but if you need more airflow for a single pipe, two could be "Y" together. I purchased a larger pump like the one in the link I posted earlier but it is loud, however I think there is enough air flow for multiple pipes. As long as all pipes together are less air flow than what the pump can put out (resistance) you should get a fairly even flow unless one pipe is far more constricted than the others.
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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby Windshadow » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:10 pm

This thread has brought to my memory the device that one of my more advanced home machine shop friends uses for surface grinding things he wants to keep dry but still keep cool
also in his case its used in resurrecting an old injection moulding machine he bought for its scrap metal price. in any case they are an interesting tech and i wonder if a scaled down version might be useful for difficult part cooling in 3d printing.Image
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/77314375
http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/06527741
nor am I about to drop $300 on even the cheapest version to experiment with it but I toss the concept out for consideration.

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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby AlanZ » Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:42 pm

My Berd-Air package arrived today, looks good.

Is there any particular difference in air flow, as influenced by the tubing setup?

For example, do you get better flow by using the larger tubing for most of the distance from the pump, and only use a small length of the yellow tubing as a coupler near the metal tube?

Or should I use a short length of the larger tube near the pump, and run the thinner yellow tube all the way to the metal tube.

My guess is that running the larger tube for most of the length would permit the most air flow... but it's just a guess, and the differences might be marginal.

Your thoughts?

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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby Jimustanguitar » Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:24 pm


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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby Xenocrates » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:03 pm

AlanZ wrote:My Berd-Air package arrived today, looks good.

Is there any particular difference in air flow, as influenced by the tubing setup?

For example, do you get better flow by using the larger tubing for most of the distance from the pump, and only use a small length of the yellow tubing as a coupler near the metal tube?

Or should I use a short length of the larger tube near the pump, and run the thinner yellow tube all the way to the metal tube.

My guess is that running the larger tube for most of the length would permit the most air flow... but it's just a guess, and the differences might be marginal.

Your thoughts?


Difference in flow will indeed be marginal, although with a larger conductor diameter the pressure drop (and air speed) will be lower. I suspect that you will have a fairly high air speed if you go for mostly larger diameter (depending on source pressure, you may even get sonic flow, which would be much badness), which could be good or bad. I suspect though, that you'll be fine going with the smaller tubing most of the way.
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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby Jassper » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:37 pm

AlanZ wrote:My Berd-Air package arrived today, looks good.

Is there any particular difference in air flow, as influenced by the tubing setup?

For example, do you get better flow by using the larger tubing for most of the distance from the pump, and only use a small length of the yellow tubing as a coupler near the metal tube?

Or should I use a short length of the larger tube near the pump, and run the thinner yellow tube all the way to the metal tube.

My guess is that running the larger tube for most of the length would permit the most air flow... but it's just a guess, and the differences might be marginal.

Your thoughts?


If you have a single pipe, then it really won't matter much as all the air is traveling one path. If you add a second or third side pipe then you will want the larger ID to go as close as possible before splitting off to several smaller paths.
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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby Xenocrates » Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:33 pm

So, a little something for those people with 713maker mount plates, be they for the E3D, or the stock hotend. A Berd-Air clip that fits on without sticky tape, allows you to keep the wire loop, and doesn't need anything but what you've got besides the printed part.

http://repables.com/r/722

It's a bit ugly, and not tested for anything besides fitting on roughly. Let me know if you have any suggestions or gripes, and how it works for you. Once the function is assured, then I may play with prettying it up.
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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby Jassper » Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:40 am

Version 2
Slightly larger holes, 0.1mm and 9 holes instead of the previous 7 holes.
Give better air flow.

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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby Eaglezsoar » Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:18 pm

Jassper wrote:Here is a video highlighting some tips on how to bend and cut the tubing so you can adapt it to your specific printer.

https://youtu.be/oJPRmSepvBI


And here is a very nice little pump that will move a lot of air.
O2 Commercial Air Pump
It is quiet and could be use to provide air to several cooling tubes.


The pump you linked to on Ebay has many different sizes, which would you recommend?
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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby Jassper » Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:36 am

I've been playing with the 794, but seems to be a bit loud. I suspect any of them will work just fine.
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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby DanWake » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:34 pm

Attached is a 3D Benchy that I printed using the BerdAir system with no additional cooling. This is ABS, 230 hotend 110 heated bed.

IMG_0296.JPG
3D Benchy - ABS / 230 / 110.
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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby DerStig » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:13 am

DanWake wrote:Attached is a 3D Benchy that I printed using the BerdAir system with no additional cooling. This is ABS, 230 hotend 110 heated bed.

IMG_0296.JPG



Abs doesn't need layer cooling

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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby Mac The Knife » Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:00 am

DerStig wrote:
DanWake wrote:Attached is a 3D Benchy that I printed using the BerdAir system with no additional cooling. This is ABS, 230 hotend 110 heated bed.

IMG_0296.JPG



Abs doesn't need layer cooling


But in some instances it can help.
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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby Xenocrates » Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:40 pm

That is my experience as well. Try printing a small pointed structure in ABS without layer cooling. You either get major warping, or you get drool all over the side of the part as it parks for the minimum layer time. Add a berd air or other layer cooling on, and you get a few more seconds you can shave off the minimum layer time. This probably isn't a huge problem for most people, but as I do wargaming miniatures, small pointed structures are very common for me.
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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby 3D-Print » Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:12 pm

As I learn about g-code, this should be something that you can turn on when needed (I.e.when the layer are is small)?

Correct?
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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby Xenocrates » Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:23 pm

Yes. Most of the time, that's how it's setup, if the minimum fan speed is 0%. You can also edit it in by hand (This is much easier if you can convince your slicer to give you G with the proper line breaks and N's. I hate it when they just dump the commands in without a care about linebreaks or N's. It makes modification and tracing so much harder (I write g by hand for CNC mills and lathes as part of my course's at school. It's a simple language, especially as used by printers, but the number of commands and variables for a printer makes it prohibitive to write any but the simplest of programs by hand))
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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby 3D-Print » Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:29 pm

DerStig wrote:
DanWake wrote:
Abs doesn't need layer cooling


But in some instances it can help.


I agree. When I print ABS and it has a small area, even with a delay between layers it doesn't harden. This is especially true when using my heated chamber. I like the idea of activating/turning on the "layer air pump" and pulling cool air from outside of the chamber, to cool and achieve better layers with ABS.
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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby Jassper » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:14 pm

I hope everyone had a great time at the Midwest RepRap Festival! if you were able to attend. It was a great time and I even got some cool (pun intended) ideas to exapnd on the BerdAir cooling system. One of which will be peek cooling!. I will be testing a few designs on the E3D hotend since it is dependent on that fan to prevent clogs. I know hte E3D fan is small and not that bulky, but if I can get it to work good with a small cooling pipe, then I can probably get it to work on other type of hotends and get rid of those large bulky fans.

I am also working on a pump that moves a bit more air and is super quiet.

Thanks everyone that has supported the BerdAir thus far!
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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby Eaglezsoar » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:27 pm

Thank you for having the Berdair available for purchase from the Midwest RepRap Festival!
As soon as I recover from all the driving, I will install it and perhaps leave a review on this forum.
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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby Xenocrates » Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:50 pm

So, I was on the fence about the V2, but today settled the question. Unfortunately, that happened because my Berd-Air dropped down into the part (Second time it's happened, but I changed the mount and added superglue between those events), causing it to come up and fail while I was in class. Not a problem so much with the Berd air, but more of with mounting it. That caused it to get stuck in a large clump of ABS.
20160322_215429.jpg

I though, No problem, I'll just cut that down some and soak it in acetone. Well, I didn't do too great there, because I managed to nick the edge of the tubing inside the hunk (Didn't even notice it).
20160322_222427.jpg

I just wish I had gotten the V2 at MRRF, since I was just there, and could have avoided the downtime on the Berd-Air.

I definitely am going to epoxy a trio of little lugs onto it to hold it in place (Positive retention on both sides for two positions, Volcano and V6) when I get the next one set up, and I'm not questioning my getting a new one in the slightest. It is a lovely bit of kit, and I love the idea.
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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby Eaglezsoar » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:30 pm

That surely is one big clump of ABS surrounding your berdair pipe.
I wish I would have met you at the MRRF as I was there hanging out around the SeeMeCNC display.
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Re: BerdAir comeing soon From Yellow Jacket Concepts

Postby Windshadow » Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:09 pm

one of the ways to release super glue is to heat it do you think that might have been a pert of the problem?I was not happy with my own installation of the BerdAirI had clipped it into the stock layer fan shroud to hold it but it was snagging filament threads so I have removed it for now until I design or "borrow" a better way of attaching it.


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