Custom ABS filament

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jesse
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Custom ABS filament

Post by jesse » Thu May 30, 2013 1:04 pm

I recently bought and assembled a Filastruder filament extruder on Kickstarter.

Let me know if you're interested in placing orders for filament. Custom coloring is available.

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Re: Custom ABS filament

Post by Jimustanguitar » Thu May 30, 2013 3:46 pm

How consistent is it? Have you noticed gaps or bubbles at all? Is it perfectly round, constant diameter, etc?

Looks like fun!

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Re: Custom ABS filament

Post by JohnStack » Thu May 30, 2013 4:33 pm

Very Cool! What is the LED on? A power supply? What kind is it?
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Re: Custom ABS filament

Post by foshon » Thu May 30, 2013 6:18 pm

JohnStack wrote:Very Cool! What is the LED on? A power supply? What kind is it?



Are you talking about the PID with the temp readout? If so it's a temp controller.
Purple = sarcasm

Please do a board search before posting your question, many have been answered with very time consuming detail already.

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Re: Custom ABS filament

Post by cambo3d » Thu May 30, 2013 7:34 pm

how long does it take you to do a 1lb of filament?
im thinking of building one myself. I had plans to build one for awhile.

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Re: Custom ABS filament

Post by jesse » Thu May 30, 2013 8:08 pm

cambo3d wrote:how long does it take you to do a 1lb of filament?


Not really sure yet since I've just started using it. Probably around 4 hours if it's done all at once.

I'm looking into building a winder since the strand can ball up if it's not guided along.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:81662

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Re: Custom ABS filament

Post by MDMD » Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:44 pm

How's everything going with the filastruder? Are you happy with the print quality you are getting with the filament? What's your price point on the filament you are making?

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Re: Custom ABS filament

Post by edward » Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:00 pm

I'm also interested in the print results. I'm quite amazed that these things actually produce decent filament (according to other accounts on the interwebz) operating as an open-loop device (the actual extrusion, not the temperature control). As foshon said, that's an off-the-shelf industrial panel-mount temperature controller.
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Re: Custom ABS filament

Post by dbkarmann@live.com » Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:20 am

@cambo3d where did you get the plans from? I think it would be fun to build one and use all my rejects to make more filament.

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Re: Custom ABS filament

Post by thenewguy » Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:23 pm

I was thinking about building one. However I don't nearly print so much to where I need this. Prices will go down soon also.

I did find a good link last night for the parts you need to build your own.
http://kitbom.com/bobt/filament-extruder/build-view

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Re: Custom ABS filament

Post by ApacheXMD » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:08 am

Filastruder is now taking orders for their DIY kit. From the information in the kitbom.com link, it looks like filastruder is selling these things almost at cost. I think I'll pick up a kit when I'm done with my next spool of filament... 8 bucks for 2lbs of ABS is pretty tempting..

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Re: Custom ABS filament

Post by elmoret » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:55 pm

edward wrote:I'm also interested in the print results. I'm quite amazed that these things actually produce decent filament (according to other accounts on the interwebz) operating as an open-loop device (the actual extrusion, not the temperature control). As foshon said, that's an off-the-shelf industrial panel-mount temperature controller.


http://www.filastruder.com/pages/testimonials

Most users report +/-0.03mm filament tolerances or better.

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Re: Custom ABS filament

Post by Eaglezsoar » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:33 pm

I have to wonder if you have to stand guard over this while it is extruding, making sure it's working right, filling the hopper etc. If keeping a close watch on it or filling the hopper every
10 minutes is required then to me it is worthless. If such is not the case, I can see myself buying one.

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Re: Custom ABS filament

Post by edward » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:23 pm

elmoret wrote:
edward wrote:I'm also interested in the print results. I'm quite amazed that these things actually produce decent filament (according to other accounts on the interwebz) operating as an open-loop device (the actual extrusion, not the temperature control). As foshon said, that's an off-the-shelf industrial panel-mount temperature controller.


http://www.filastruder.com/pages/testimonials

Most users report +/-0.03mm filament tolerances or better.


I knew I had seen the tolerance quantified somewhere. Who would have known it was on their website ? :lol:

I was on the notification list with intent to purchase until I saw their finalized "kit." Color me not impressed on that point. Those tolerances?...impressive, still.

I would really like to get a peek at one of the extrusion machines operated by one of the large scale commercial producers. I would be floored to find out that they weren't using some kind of feedback controller. The hardest part would be accurately measuring the "diameter" of the output filament (I say "diameter" because as many are aware, some filament is not truly circular in shape, rather, more elliptical). I know that a few people are working on methods to measure the filament as it goes into the extruder, dynamically adjusting the feed in the firmware to compensate for errors in diameter and roundness. But, their struggles also seem to be focused on reliable measurement of the filament...at least while doing so at a reasonable price-point, which is the primary objective of the Filastruder. So if they can maintain +/- 0.03mm and people find that acceptable, I'd say they're doing well.
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Re: Custom ABS filament

Post by ApacheXMD » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:46 pm

user elmoret is probably Tim Elmore, the creator of the filastruder.

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Re: Custom ABS filament

Post by elmoret » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:00 pm

Eaglezsoar wrote:I have to wonder if you have to stand guard over this while it is extruding, making sure it's working right, filling the hopper etc. If keeping a close watch on it or filling the hopper every
10 minutes is required then to me it is worthless. If such is not the case, I can see myself buying one.


I refill the hopper about every 8 hours (I have a hopper extension). Outside of filling the hopper, there's no other interaction required. I do poke my head in the garage every few hours just to make sure everything's okay. I'd say to treat it like a turkey in the oven - you don't need to mess with it every 10 minutes, but you shouldn't go to sleep or leave the building. Kind of like a CNC machine, I'd say. Besides making cheap filament, one of the other cool things has been experimenting with polymer blends - like nylon (same stuff shapeways uses) and ABS mixed together, or super flexible TPEs, or custom colors, etc.


edward wrote:I knew I had seen the tolerance quantified somewhere. Who would have known it was on their website ? :lol:

I was on the notification list with intent to purchase until I saw their finalized "kit." Color me not impressed on that point. Those tolerances?...impressive, still.

I would really like to get a peek at one of the extrusion machines operated by one of the large scale commercial producers. I would be floored to find out that they weren't using some kind of feedback controller. The hardest part would be accurately measuring the "diameter" of the output filament (I say "diameter" because as many are aware, some filament is not truly circular in shape, rather, more elliptical). I know that a few people are working on methods to measure the filament as it goes into the extruder, dynamically adjusting the feed in the firmware to compensate for errors in diameter and roundness. But, their struggles also seem to be focused on reliable measurement of the filament...at least while doing so at a reasonable price-point, which is the primary objective of the Filastruder. So if they can maintain +/- 0.03mm and people find that acceptable, I'd say they're doing well.


Sorry you weren't impressed! :) I put effort into it working and the BOM being low so that it has a fast ROI. I know I personally couldn't justify $600+ on a hobbyist filament extruder. As an engineer, I don't care very much about "pretty". I run a kit just like the picture, no enclosure or anything else. Actually I don't even have a printed enclosure for the temperature controller - it just sits on the base.

The pros definitely use closed loop control on motor speed and filament diameter. We don't need to do that, for a number of reasons that are too in-depth to discuss here but involve words like "unstable viscoelastic flow".

+/-0.03mm is on par or better than filament I've purchased from commercial suppliers. It helps a lot that we don't have to extrude as fast as they do.

I am indeed Tim Elmore, creator of the Filastruder.

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Re: Custom ABS filament

Post by edward » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:17 pm

As an engineer myself I understand the function-over-form (what I consider to be false-) dichotomy. I do often choose function; however, that is largely for personal projects and usually imposed by time constraints. Whenever I'm selling a product, and granted, I've never sold anything in the consumer/hobbyist marketplace, I want my customer to feel like they got what they paid for. I find even the smallest dose of form can have a huge impact in that area. I'm not knocking your work as a whole, as I think it is a great step forward for the 3D printing community and I'm sure that some day soon I too will be extruding my own filament. I think it was a given that price was a driving factor in your design. But, other than the presumed-to-be custom nozzle, $249 (plus shipping?) for some hunks of plywood, a couple printed parts and a few off-the-shelf electronics seems hardly worth it to me. That's just me. I'm just some random guy on the internet, so please don't lose any sleep due to my criticism ;)

I appreciate your friendly response and do want to congratulate you on shipping a product. I think it's great that you are taking time to interact with the community. It takes a great deal of work to go from concept through prototype stages to market, not to mention doing so with the pressure of a competitive, quickly evolving, industry.

Best of luck!
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Re: Custom ABS filament

Post by ApacheXMD » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:49 pm

Have you tried to price out everything required to make one of these? I think you'll find itll be hard to do it cheaper than filastruder, and it's all been thought out for you. I, too, am just a random guy on the internet, but I think the filastruder kit is a pretty good deal.

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Re: Custom ABS filament

Post by lordbinky » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:25 am

I haven't tried to price out the filastruder, but for many items that I think 'hmmm... I can make that on my own for that much' the BOM of small order (no bulk discounts) tends to be within 10% of the thing I want to make. So I have ended up buying the item out of cost effectiveness if it doesn't make it hellish to mod or upgrade components for higher quality parts. That doesn't include my time investment either, which I don't value for personal projects I have fun doing.

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Re: Custom ABS filament

Post by edward » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:57 am

I haven't. When I think about it, I can't remember a time when I've part-by-part priced out a consumer good to validate my perceived value of the object. That's exactly where the "little bit of form" plays in that I was describing. I was commenting on the on the point that it doesn't *look to me* like it's worth what they charge. I consider myself to be an empirical person, so there is certainly a chance that as more data is available on the quality of the filament, reliability, wear of the machine, etc., maybe I'll change my mind. I guess that means that I'm satisfied buying my filament for the present time, but my interest in their product and its results is genuine.

I think that extruding your own filament is going to be the next big shake-up in this industry. Devices such as this should help drive down prices of commercially produced filament. I still am impressed with the results that they get. I just won't be spending on that kit anytime soon.

To each his own, right?
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Re: Custom ABS filament

Post by lordbinky » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:39 am

I don't go through enough filament yet to make the ROI practical. That is likely to change when (not sure when but I know it will happen) I get a second printer setup (That way I can still tinker on one and not be completely stopped from printing). When that happens though... I will likely be torn between whatever iteration the filastruder is at and the extruderbot ( It extrudes just so damn fast compaired to similar machines)

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